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IWDM Study Library
The Diane Rheeme Show

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Diane Rheme:
Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in one G-d and that G-d's message has been delivered to them by Prophets. For thousands of years, these religions have been the instruments of peace and comfort as well as intolerance and violence. In this, our conversation with religious scholars. from each of these faiths, we'll talk about the shared histories, contemporary interpretations and challenges posed by an increasingly connected and secular world.
Speaker 3:
It's six minutes after 10 o'clock on WFYI. Time for the Diane Rheme Show on Don Gomes. Good morning.
Diane Rheme:
W-A-M-U-N in Washington and I'm Diane Rheme. Around the world, more than 3 billion people are followers of the Christian, Islamic or Jewish faith. There are many clear distinctions among these religions, but as you'll hear, there are also some intriguing commonalities. Joining me in the studio to talk about similarity and differences, the very Reverend David O'Connell, President of Catholic University. Imam Yahya Hindi, a Muslim chaplain at Georgetown University and the Rabbi Jeffrey Wahlberg of Ottas Israel Congregation here in Washington. We'll take your call throughout the hour one, the 804 3 3 8 8 5 0. Good morning to all of you. Thank you for joining me. Rabbi Wahlberg, if I could start with you, first give us a bit of a brief history lesson. What's known about the common origins of these three religious traditions? For you, it begins with the Old Testament, the Torah.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, for us, the Torah is the most sacred part of what is called the Old Testament. We don't refer to it as the Old Testament. We call all the Hebrew Bible. The first five books are the Torah, Genesis through Deuteronomy. There's a range of beliefs about the authorship of those five books, whether they were written by G-d, dictated by G-d, written by Moses. They're part of the tradition, but they're certainly the most sacred. And from there we derive our basic principles, the basic history of the Jewish people and its earliest years and the beginnings of what we believe and why we believe it and a direction for our lives.
Diane Rheme:
And then Father O'Connell, the Christian tradition comes along building on its interest in that Old Testament, moving then into the New Testament with naming its own Prophets.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Of course, the Christian tradition is deeply rooted in the Hebrew scriptures and the belief and the expectation of the Messiah. It is our belief in Christianity that Jesus Christ, the son of G-d was indeed the Messiah, foretold by the Prophets and came to fulfill the writings of the Hebrew scriptures. And in his life and in his ministry and his mission and his teaching, he was able to bring to bear a lot of the sound principles that are presented in the Hebrew scriptures and to add to them in the Christian context.
Diane Rheme:
And what would we assume as far as scholars know now, what would we assume would be the earliest writings of the Old, sorry of the New Testament?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well of course, depending on the scholarship, the dates will vary. There are those who believe that some of the New Testament writings, the Christian scriptures would have been authored as early as 50 AD. Some believe earlier, some believe much later.
Diane Rheme:
And turning out to you Imam Hindi, talk a little about the Qur'an, the word of Muhammad as given to him by the angel Gabriel.
Imam Hindi:
Well, Muslims do not believe that the Qur'an is the word of Muhammad. Muslims believe that Qur'an is the word of G-d revealed to Prophet Muhammad via the angel Gabriel. And there is something else called Hadith. Hadith material is what Muhammad himself said and how he explained the Qur'an to the Muslims. And therefore, Muslims talk about two different sources for their theology, the Qur'an and Hadith.
Diane Rheme:
And in what year did Muhammad live and when did he come to understand what he had been told by the angel Gabriel?
Imam Hindi:
Well, Muhammad lived for 63 years. He was born in the year 559 in the Christian era and lived for 63 years. He became Prophet. He was commissioned by G-d who sent down according to Muslims Jibril, Gabriel, to speak to him and to reveal the Qur'an to him. And he preached the Qur'an over the course of 23 years.
Diane Rheme:
Now did he actually begin to write immediately or did he wait a certain period of time?
Imam Hindi:
Muhammad himself was illiterate. He had around him people, the writers of Revelation. Those 20 people were always around him whenever a revelation came down to him and they would be instructed to write down the revelation. So the revelation was written at the time Prophet Muhammad, then they would read it back to him and he would review it from memorization.
Diane Rheme:
And isn't it so that the angel Gabriel spoke with the Prophet Muhammad in Arabic and then that had to be translated back for say American Muslims?
Imam Hindi:
I mean now each community worldwide has translated the Qur'an. In America, many people have translated the Qur'an. And we call that the translation of the meaning of the Qur'an or the translation of the interpretation of the Qur'an, believing that no one can assure that his interpretation is direct interpretation of what G-d may have meant.
Diane Rheme:
What do the three religious beliefs, faiths have in common Rabbi Wahlberg?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, at the very least we would say, or would the very best we would say that we have a common view of the world. A basic principle is a G-d of justice, a G-d who cares, a G-d who is involved in the lives of humanity and to whom our allegiance.
Diane Rheme:
A single G-d.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
A single G-d.
Diane Rheme:
Father O'Connell.
Father O'Connell:
One of the interesting points that the Iman had mentioned was when he said that the Qur'an is not the word of Muhammad, it's the word of G-d. And I think that's the belief that shared in the three traditions represented here, both the Hebrew scriptures, the Qur'an, and the New Testament. We consider it to be the word of G-d mediated of course, through the human authorship.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
That's the interesting point. When we say the word of G-d, we use the same words. We all think we understand what each is saying, but of course that means different things to different people, not only to the three of us in the room. The word of G-d can mean something which is revealed word by word, or it can mean something which is inspired by G-d and is spoken and expressed by an individual in his own words. And yet that is also regarded as the word of G-d.
Father O'Connell:
And this is a very interesting point because this is where interpretation comes to play, and this is sometimes where the differences do arise in the interpretation, not only of what we're dealing with but the way we speak about it.
Imam Hindi:
And I think we're similar in not only that we worship the same G-d, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but also in talking about Abraham. Abraham is the father of the three faiths. Abraham is the one who laid down the foundations for monotheism, the worship of G-d. Abraham is very important figure in Judaism, in Christianity and also in Islam.
Diane Rheme:
But in all three approaches, there is this single G-d. So we have monotheistic beliefs here. Is that correct?
Imam Hindi:
We all agree with that.
Diane Rheme:
You'll all agree with that.
Father O'Connell:
And that's the fundamental difference between the religions and the religions that preceded Judaism and Christianity.
Imam Hindi:
Actually, you very often read the Christian Bible and the Qur'an and find phrases referring to G-d in the same way, the King of all Kings, the loving Lord, the Merciful one.
Diane Rheme:
What about respect for human beings Rabbi Wahlberg.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
I think we all have respect for human beings. I don't want to speak for the other religions, I'd rather speak for Judaism. And even there I'm constrained because for one person to speak for the entire religion is also humbling and maybe impossible. But we certainly within Judaism have great respect for human life. Life is a primary principle. As a matter of fact, Judaism is known as a religion of many, many laws. There are 613 commandments in the Torah, the first five books of our Bible. All of those laws except for three, can be suspended in order to save a life. Life takes precedence. One can't commit murder in order to save a life. One can't commit a homosexual act to save a life. One can't blaspheme G-d to save a life, but all of the laws can be suspended because life is a primary principle.
Diane Rheme:
To what extent Father O'Connell, would you say that the origin of the Christian and Muslim teachings builds on the Jewish traditions?
Father O'Connell:
I think we all know that Jesus Christ himself was a Jew and a faithful Jew, and certainly the traditions of Judaism are very much a part of his life and important to him. And so I think that is the fundamental cornerstone of our religion. I think it was Pope Pius the 12th who said to the Catholic audience, we are all spiritual Semites. We are all spiritual Jews in our heart. And I think that's a very important thing to keep in mind.
Imam Hindi:
The argument I would make is a little different. G-d is the origin of our traditions. G-d is the one who revealed the Torah to Moses. He's the one who revealed the good news to Jesus. He's the one who revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad, and therefore it's very normal to see similarities in the three traditions, not that Qur'an has built on Judaism or Christianity, but those similarities is basically because the source is one. That's G-d.
Diane Rheme:
Well then how would you identify the basic differences among the three religions?
Imam Hindi:
Well, as you heard earlier that people have throughout history defined and interpreted the scriptures differently and brought about different attitudes, different theological differences between one another. And I think the origin is the same.
Diane Rheme:
Does Islam claim that the word of Muhammad sort of does away with or supersedes any religion or religious idea or word that came before it?
Imam Hindi:
Well, Islam teaches that, and the Qur'an teaches that the Qur'an is the last revelation from G-d to humankind and that Muhammad is the seal of all Prophets. Islam teaches that Muhammad taught his people to submit to the will of G-d, and by that definition, the Qur'an says Abraham also placed on his followers the directive to submit to the will of G-d. Jesus taught his people to submit to the will of G-d and Moses did the same. And that is by the way, the meaning of the word Islam. The word Islam in Arabic means peace and surrender. And therefore, according to this definition, Islam believes that Islam is the religion of submission to the will of G-d is the religion of all of those Prophets and Messengers. Islam does teach that one has to believe in the religion of Islam, however that should not be used as an excuse to force Islam on other religions.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, I think each of us would say that our tradition is the last word in tradition, and that anything additional is not to be accepted as superior or superseding. The book of Deuteronomy itself says that we are not to add or subtract from the text that we call the Torah. And so from a Jewish perspective, we would say that our tradition is the authentic tradition and that's where the differences would come in.
Father O'Connell?
Father O'Connell:
Yes. When you use the expression Christianity, you're speaking about a very, very broad concept. And of course my own tradition within Christianity, the Catholic tradition is a rather specific one. We consider ourselves to be a community of faith, community of beliefs, a community of worship, and also a community of law that is mediated under the directorship, under the leadership of central figure with a strong central creed. One of the differences in Catholicism, the Catholicism witnesses is not only do we base ourselves and our understanding of revelation of G-d's revelation on the word of G-d, but also on tradition, the tradition that comes to us in and through the church. And so we probably would not speak of the last word, but rather would speak of tradition as something that's ongoing and developing. And that's the heart and the essence of it.
Diane Rheme:
Ongoing since Christ's time.
Father O'Connell:
And that's the essence of our theology.
Diane Rheme:
We're here with the Very Reverend David O'Connell. He's President of Catholic University. We'll take just a short break here. I would be delighted to have you join us. Call us on +1 800-433-8850 as we talk about three very important religious beliefs in the world.
And if you just joined us, we are talking about the more than 3 billion people who are followers of the Christian, Islamic or Jewish faith. We're talking about their beliefs, how they are similar and where they differ. Here in the studio is Rabbi Jeffrey Wahlberg of Ottis Israel congregation here in Washington, Imam Hindi, the Muslim chaplain at Georgetown University, and the very Reverend David O'Connell, President of Catholic University 1 804 3 3 8 8 5 0. What about the miracle stories Rabbi Wahlberg? To what extent are there similarities among the three religions in regard to those stories?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
I think what we're seeing in part is that our traditions are based on interpretation. And that living traditions and each of us represents a living religious tradition are not simply limited to the ancient texts, but to the interpretations given those texts over the centuries. And I think each of us might have some very basic similarities and interpretation within our tradition about miracles. There would be those who would be the most literal, who would say they happened exactly as described, and there would be others who would be less literal who would say even that they're metaphors, although I'm not sure that want to say that this morning, but certainly that they may not have happened exactly as described, but they reflect the faith of the people who trusted in them and who were inspired by them.
Diane Rheme:
Give me an example.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, did the walls of water part as described in the Book of Exodus? That two solid walls of water between which the Israelites went and then they came crashing down on the Egyptians. Cecil B Demille gave us a beautiful image of that and we all have a visual in our minds. Was it exactly the way De Mille interpreted it or do the words permit various interpretations? It doesn't even say in the Torah that it was the Red Sea. It says Yamsuf, which means something like the sea of reeds. So the translation can also direct us in the wrong direction and our image can be inappropriate.
Diane Rheme:
Father O'Connell, I think about a New Testament miracle that of the fishes in loaves where Christ was said to have fed a huge throng of people from a single fish and a loaf. Again, is that as Rabbi Wahlberg has implied sort of the interpretation, or are Christians truly believing that that happened as it is said?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, I think you have to remember that in a Christian tradition and the Catholic tradition, miracles are considered the acts of G-d. They're also considered extraordinary interventions. And if you look through the gospels, through the New Testament writings, the Christian scriptures, you see that Jesus only asks one thing before he performs a miracle, whether it be the raising of someone from the dead, the curing of a leper, the curing of someone's child who is sick or has died. Whatever the miracle, Jesus asks for faith, faith in him, faith in G-d. And so the miracle is both an act and action as well as a symbol, and that is certainly true of the miracle that you described, the miracle of the loaves and the fishes. That is an action in which Jesus, in which G-d provides for His people. But also, there is some symbolism there that Jesus continues, we believe in our tradition, in our Catholic faith to provide for his people through the Eucharist.
Diane Rheme:
So, between the Jewish faith, the Christian faith, you have what is said to be a single G-d and yet as far as the Christians are concerned, you have the Holy Trinity as opposed to a single G-d. You have the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. How is that reconciled with the single G-d of Yahweh?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, if I were able to explain the mystery to the holy spirit, I would deserve a lot of credit. That is a fundamental mystery in how G-d exists as father, son and spirit as part of revelation and part of what we believe. I don't know that I can give it an adequate explanation, certainly in a short period of time, but we remember that in Christianity and Catholicism, it's not only the word of G-d, it's not only the presence of G-d but it's G-d the word made flesh, that G-d actually walked among us as a man, as a human being.
For you Imam Hindi.
Imam Hindi:
Well, in terms of the miracle, G-d's capable of all things and He's the creator of all things. He's the creator of laws and physics and chemistry. He can make things change as He commands. G-d's word would be "Say, be and it is." It was G-d who brought about Jesus from a mother who was not married and without a father. That was a miracle that the Qur'an talks about. Back to the river. When Moses had the exodus from Egypt, Muslims believe it was a river, it was water and G-d could do that to protect Moses and the followers of Moses. So, G-d's capability should not be questioned that He could change things as He wills.
Diane Rheme:
How does the word as it was given to Muhammad view the figure Of Jesus?
Imam Hindi:
Well, the Qur'an teaches that Jesus is a Prophet, is a Messenger of G-d and is not the son of G-d. This is one of the few differences Islam has where between Islam and Christianity, Jesus is the Messiah, who is the Messiah because G-d wanted him to be that way. Jesus performed miracles with the permission of G-d and not because he is the son of G-d.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Here clearly is a difference among us. You were looking for differences before. Obviously, this is a critical one and the question is for us, among other things, is a miracle an objective event or subjective interpretation of an event? And certainly, in modern times we would want to know that. And that's part of the traditional differences among us. Because for us, miracle is not at the core of Jewish belief. We have no creeds. And whereas my understanding of Christianity is that the miracle is at the center. In Judaism, miracles are at the periphery. So I find it more difficult to interpret these. It's not that we don't believe in miracles, but our faith is not based on miracles, it's based on things that are more definable.
Diane Rheme:
Let's move now to both the spread of Islam and the spread of Christianity. And one has to wonder how much of that can be attributed perhaps to geopolitical ambition. Father OConnell.
Father O'Connell:
Think if we look at the history of the church for example, we see growth, we see adaptation, we see inculturation. The church does not exist in some non-human way. The church exists in a very human way and it has to be able to speak to human cultures in order to redeem human cultures and I think that's a very important thing to keep in mind.
Diane Rheme:
Were there forced conversions early on?
Father O'Connell:
I think we know history pretty well, we're very well acquainted with that aspect, that at times zeal, as it says in the Psalms, zeal from my house consumes me. I'm sure that that kind of zeal certainly did consume early Christians who believe so strongly in their faith and in revelation that they wanted to make sure that the world heard the message, even at times at the cost of other people's beliefs and cultural interpretations.
Diane Rheme:
And what about within Islam?
Imam Hindi:
Well, the Prophet Muhammad lived in the city of Mecca for 13 years preaching Islam peacefully. However, many of the citizens of Mecca did not allow him to do so. They forced him out of Mecca and he was welcomed into a city called Medina, about 619 kilometers north of the city of Mecca. He went there with the hope that he would be able to preach Islam peacefully and in a way that would be accepted to all people. However, the neighbors, the neighboring tribes of the city of Medina did not leave him alone. They went after him. They forced him into war and he got engaged into war to protect the Muslim community that continued to be persecuted for over 13 years. However, later Islam did spread throughout many continents by I believe Muslims being invited in by the masses of many nations that were persecuted by their own leaders.
Diane Rheme:
Rabbi Wahlberg, what do Jewish scholars have to say on the subject?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Of war? Well, first of all, there were many times, there were times in history when Islam was very benign towards Jews, but there were times when it was not. And unfortunately, even in Muhammad's time when he could not forcibly convert to the tribes in the area, he turned on them. Yet the Golden Ages of Spain was a time when Muslim control permitted Jews and traditional Judaism to flourish. In terms of war, the spokesperson that I would turn to would be Maimonides, a great Jewish scholar of the 12th century who divided war into three categories. He said there are mitzvah wars, commanded wars, those would be the wars commanded by G-d in the Bible. They don't exist any longer. Then there were obligatory wars, they would be wars of self-defense. And then there are discretionary wars. Those would be wars such as a preemptive strike. I think those categories are interesting in terms of contemporary thinking. He didn't speak of just and unjust wars. Not in those terms.
Imam Hindi:
Well, I want to disagree with the Rabbi for a second here and say Muhammed never tried to convert the Jews. Actually, there's a verse in chapter two in the Qur'an it says there's no compulsion or force in religion. The story of why this verse was revealed to Prophet Muhammed is because a few individuals came into Islam who were from a Jewish background. However, these were parents, senior citizens of Medina. They came to Muhammed talking about their anger with their children who did not convert to Islam and asking him, well, should we force Islam on our own children to come into Islam rather than stay Jews? And the verse was revealed to Prophet Muhammad saying "There's no compulsion in religion." There is no way to force those Jews to become Muslims if they don't want to become Muslims. The two stories that you refer to are when tribes turned and became allies of Arab tribes against the preaching of Islamic teachings in Medina. It was not to convert them to Islam
Rabbi Wahlberg.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, I don't want to debate history. I understand history to be different. I understand the facts to be slightly different than unfortunate. But the truth is that the Golden Age in Spain was a good time later, 9th and 12th centuries when Islam had captured southern Spain and Jewish tradition was permitted to flourish and did so until the Muslims were expelled from southern Spain.
Diane Rheme:
25 before the hour. You are listening to the Diane Rheme Show. We've got lots of callers waiting. If I could ask you, please to put on those headphones so that we can hear some of their questions. And first calling from Chicago is Imam Mohammed. And good morning to you sir. Thank you for joining us.
Imam Mohammed:
Good morning Diane.
Diane Rheme:
How would you describe the manner in which Islam has been translated into behavior, political behavior, not only in this country but elsewhere in the world. We were talking about individual interpretations, but how would you specifically say it has been translated to political use in this country?
Imam Mohammed:
I understand that the Muslim, the days of glory for Muslims in the world, the great times like in Spain when Islam was there for 500 years or more and there were very good conditions and relationships, working relationship for Jews, Jewish leaders, Muslim leaders and Christians, Christian leaders. And that's something that's desired in the heart of all Muslims that we desire for a time, we have a hunger to have a time like that again. But the psyche of the Muslim leaders of the world has been very, very much hurt and damaged by knowledge of the Crusades and then colonial domination. And now the problem in the Middle East, they need to have peace for Israel and the Palestinians, a just peace there. And I understand that what we are seeing in these extremes of behavior like the suicide bombers and others before them. And now what we are seeing I think is desperate attempts to get attention to these problems and to get justice for the Muslims.
Diane Rheme:
Imam WD Mohammed is the leader of the Muslim American Society. Father O'Connell how would you respond?
Father O'Connell:
Well, I think the key phrase that was used there was extremes of behavior. And I think that's one of the things that we have to guard against in each of the mainstream religious traditions, extremes of behavior. What we are reacting to in the post September 11th situation really is a reaction to fanaticism within a religious tradition. And I think there's a key difference between reacting against that, against extremist beliefs and fanatical beliefs and the mainstream tenets of a religion.
Diane Rheme:
What would you regard as an extreme behavior, Father O'Connell.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
An extreme behavior in the terrorist action itself that can be justified on the tenets of the Islam religion. I think that is a fanatical interpretation.
Diane Rheme:
Imam Mohammed, is that what you're arguing?
Imam Mohammed:
Yes I am. And what I'm saying is that when people are driven to extremes, extreme pressures on people, on religious people or anybody, if it is not relieved, if there's not a way out of that and the pressure continues to build up, it can drive the person out of their natural human form and that's what is happening. We are having people that are losing not only their religion, but they're losing their human form.
Diane Rheme:
Imam Hindi, do you support Imam Mohammed's view that the terrorist attacks of the past few months could in fact be justified by beliefs and by people being driven to extremes as opposed to committing heinous acts of violence.
Imam Hindi:
I did not hear Imam Mohammed saying that it is justified. However, he's saying that those people are trying to use religion to justify what they did and their religion has nothing to do with what they did. What they did is an absolute contradiction to what their faith teaches. Do
Diane Rheme:
You believe that Imam Mohammed?
Imam Mohammed:
Yes Ma'am. That is exactly where I'm coming from. Yes.
Diane Rheme:
Alright, we have to take just a short break here and when we come back, we'll take calls from our listeners. Imam Mohammed, I do want to thank you for joining us this morning and hope we get to talk to you again. Stay with us.
Rabbi Wahlberg, I know you wanted to comment on something that Imam Mohammed said.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
What I find disturbing is that there's a text and a pretext. There is what's really happening in the world and then the excuse given for what's happening in the world. And to misuse religion, I think is inappropriate. What we're waiting for, I think what we all need is vocal condemnation of the terrible things that are happening from within the religious communities and by the leaders of the religious communities so that everyone from within or without will understand what's right and what's wrong.
Diane Rheme:
Farther O'Connell.
Father O'Connell:
I think it's very important to emphasize this point and I think part of the confusion in the earlier conversation was that the Imam did not take it one step further. There is absolutely no justification for this action that took place in this country, religious or otherwise.
Imam Hindi:
I keep hearing this statement. Well, Muslims have to come up and condemn what happened. Muslims have been doing this. Islamic Jurisprudence Council. And I am the spokesperson for the Islamic Jurisprudence Council of North America. We have come up strongly, clearly within three hours after the incident and condemned what happened and said this has nothing to do with Islam and should have nothing to do with any faith. And that terrorism and violence has no religion, has no faith.
Diane Rheme:
And yet there is there an understanding that people could be driven. As Imam Mohammed said that people could be driven to such extremes that they would commit such acts and then use the Qur'an to justify those acts.
Imam Hindi:
My argument has been, where is it in the Qur'an that says that this is acceptable? Where is it in the teachings of Islam that says this is acceptable? When Muhammad, even within the battlefield, when he was attacked by his neighbors, his soldiers came to him. and said that some of those people are Christians and Jews and Monks. He said, "Listen, when you come across a Synagogue or a Temple, do not destroy them. If you come across a Monk or a Rabbi, do not kill them. If you come across even a plant or a tree, do not bring it down. So, what happened in New York City and in the Pentagon is absolutely against the teachings of Islam. But I want to say something here. People are waiting for the Muslims to condemn what happened. The Muslims have been doing this. What happened two weeks ago from Frank Graham when he spoke against Islam in a very terrible way, how many Christian leaders have stood up publicly and condemned what he said against Islam? That is something we need to hear.
Diane Rheme:
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that statement.
Imam Hindi:
It has been in the Washington Post and the Times, on TV. I have some quotations here where he said Islam, G-d of Islam is an evil G-d and Islam is a wicked religion. What does this really mean? When he said that the Allah of Islam, the G-d of Islam has nothing to do with the G-d of a Christianity and Judaism. Can someone stand up and say something about it?
Diane Rheme:
Again, interpretation on individual basis that goes to an extreme, certainly as far as you are concerned Imam Hindi. Let's go to Clarksville, Indiana. Good morning Jim.
Caller Jim:
Good morning and thank you for having me on.
Diane Rheme:
Sure.
Caller Jim:
I heard the Rabbi say earlier that the three laws could be suspended and one of 'em had to do with thou shall not kill. I assume that life is sacred. And I wondered how the three different religions justify war, justify the kind of action that's going on right now in Afghanistan.
Diane Rheme:
Rabbi Wahlberg.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, first of all, perhaps the gentleman misunderstood. I said there are three laws that can't be suspended in order to save life and one is to commit murder. Interesting that thou shalt not kill is often as cited from the 10 Commandments. It doesn't say that in Hebrew. In Hebrew it says Thou shalt not commit murder. That killing is permissible within the context of Jewish tradition for reasons of self-defense and capital punishment. Accidental homicide is not considered murder. So, we distinguish between those categories.
Diane Rheme:
Father O'Connell.
Father O'Connell:
I would agree very much with that. There's a big difference between murder and the killing that is occurring at the present time. In the Catholic tradition. There is a long history of what is called the just war theory with very carefully worked out philosophical principles. And I think we have to keep that in mind. War is never a positive. It is a regrettable action as our Bishop says. It can be justified on very clear principles.
Diane Rheme:
Alright, to South Florida, Felix you're on the air.
Caller Felix:
Hello. Hi Dianne. Thank you.
Diane Rheme:
Sure.
Caller Felix:
First of all, I don't prescribe to any specific religion. I do believe in one G-d. And because of that I've read the Torah of the Christian Bible and I've also read a little bit of the Qur'an. And what I found in the Qur'an is that it constantly prescribes for a struggle against the infidel. And it goes as far as I read one Surah in one verse, that not to take Jews and Christians as friends. And even today in a lot of Muslim countries, I believe that there's a special tax for Christians and Jews that live in that country. So, I believe that except for Spain and the ancient past, and of course they were on Christian ground, they had to be tolerant. But as far as I could tell from the readings that I have of the Qur'an, that Islam is very intolerant of other religions, especially Hinduism and Buddhism.
Imam Hindi:
Well, on the contrary, what about the verse in the Qur'an that there's no compulsion religion that I mentioned more than once. What about the verse in the Holy Qur'an where it calls on Muslims to call on Christians and Jews to come to a mutual understanding and respect of one another? What about the verse in the Holy Qur'an where it says the believers are but the brothers? What about the verse in the Holy Qur'an that says, where G-d said "Oh mankind, I created you from a single pair of a male and a female."
Diane Rheme:
Imam Hindi, for those who would like to read the Qur'an for themselves, give the title of a good English translation.
Imam Hindi:
Well, there is one called The Translation of the Meaning of the Holy Qur'an by Amana publication, A-M-A-N-A in Maryland.
Diane Rheme:
Good. And Rabbi Wahlberg?
Rabbi Wahlberg:
I would suggest the translation, which is called the Tanach, T-A-N-A-C-H, published by the Jewish Publications Society
Diane Rheme:
And Father O'Connell.
Father O'Connell:
You could use the New American Bible, the Revised edition of that, or the New Jerusalem Bible.
Diane Rheme:
Can we talk for just a moment about the range of perhaps interpretation with regard to women within the Christian tradition, the Jewish tradition, and that of Islam? Father O' Connell.
Father O'Connell:
Dianne could you be more specific in your question?
Diane Rheme:
One young woman who identified herself as an American Islamic individual said that she believed in the subjugation of women as taught by the Qur'an and practiced by the Qur'an.
Imam Hindi:
My question is, where is it in the Qur'an that says that? People can say it's in the Qur'an, but where is it in the Qur'an that says that?
Diane Rheme:
And you're saying it's not there?
Imam Hindi:
Well, Diana, I am with you on air speaking with people from coast to coast. I challenge people to bring up one Ayat, one verse in the Qur'an that says that. On the contrary, I would prove you, and I'm willing to come back again with you on the show and talk about and quote many verses in the Qur'an and in the tradition of Muhammad, where Muhammad said that men are the mates of women, and women are the mates of men in the making of society.
Diane Rheme:
It's interesting that you use the word hijacked in regard to the Taliban and the Qur'an.
Imam Hindi:
We want to speak against that. We want to make sure that America hears the truth about Islam.
Diane Rheme:
Alright. To Rochester, New York. Good morning Marlene. You're on the air.
Speaker Marlene:
Good morning. I would like to ask the gentleman concerning absolute truth. If the Qur'an says that Jesus was a good man who essentially failed in his purpose and is coming again and the New Testament which says, well, Jesus is G-d, who by the historical resurrection proves that he is the son of G-d. You have two opposing views of this one man. One has to be right and one has to be wrong unless we believe that there is no absolute truth and you can hold two opposing views at the same time. And I have problems with this because it seems like religion should be above such things and that without unity of truth, then there is chaos.
Diane Rheme:
Alright, Father O'Connell,
Father O'Connell:
The absolute truth is G-d Himself and G-d Himself reveals Himself in ways that need to be understood and intelligible. And that way is the word made flesh Jesus Christ. And that is our belief. Many people do not accept that belief, but that is our fundamental belief and our fundamental teaching in Christianity and Catholicism.
Rabbi Wahlberg:
Well, here's the difference between faith and fact. Many people assume things to be fact when they are simply faith. We believe many things. The fact that we believe them does not make them absolute truth. There's no such thing as absolute truth except in the theoretical realm. But there are interpretations of truth and interpretations of history and interpretations of fact. And what one person believes with great fidelity is not accepted by many other people in the world.
Diane Rheme:
So we had here this morning a wonderful discussion about how faith is interpreted, how it is translated individually or by a group, how it can be used politically by an individual, by a group, how it can be, as you said, Imam Hindi hijacked. And we all I think need to know and understand an awful lot about these religious traditions before any one of us I think certainly I can speak with any authority whatsoever. I want to thank you all so much for being here this morning. The Reverend David O'Connell, President of Catholic University, Imam Yahya Hindi at Georgetown University and Rabbi Jeffrey Wahlberg of Addis Israel Congregation. Thanks to all of you.


