2000 August_21
Canada TV Interview
Imam WD Mohammed (00:00:10):

Well, looking back what was in my mind, I didn't give it a second thought. I accepted that he was the boss. My mother made us know that and I accepted that he had a special relationship with G-d and that Fard was really instructring him. I was told that I accepted that. So I didn't question him. Some of us, if say sometimes when we would complain to ourselves about the restrictions on us, we'd say, "Daddy might can hear us." We thought he had some super powers, that he could hear our thoughts, our conversation.
(00:01:37):
On the one hand he was very kind and also I would say much more merciful and tolerant than my mother. My mother, she would put the strap on you and you would remember it for a week. But my father was a softie in that regard. We knew he wasn't trying to hurt us. In fact, after he struck us a few times he would laugh about it. And on the other hand, he was a very serious person who insisted upon obedience. And if you disobeyed him in matters of religion or behavior or certain deeds, he was a very difficult man. You couldn't even reason with him, you couldn't explain yourself to him. He didn't want to hear anything. And he was right almost a hundred percent of the time. Where I recall him being wrong was, and I had to suffer that, he made a designation that was not correct for me, but I couldn't speak back to him. I couldn't defend myself.
(00:02:53):
Question (Inaudible)
(00:02:58):
Well he had a picture of the man that came from Asia Far East and taught my father all that he learned of Islam or didn't learn of Islam.
Speaker 3 (00:03:13):
The name of that man was?
(00:03:15):
Fard. That's spelled F-A-R-D. His name was WD Fard and we also called him W Fard Muhammad, who taught my father and gave him, well the whole idea of how to establish the Nation of Islam. And he gave my father too hints of his divinity and hints to my father of how my father was to represent him.
(00:03:53):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:03:56):
Yes, that he was G-d.
Speaker 3 (00:03:57):
And your father was a Messenger.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:03:59):
And that my father was a Messenger of G-d. Yes. Well, he didn't say to my father that, but he left it to my father to reason that I'm his Messenger and he's G-d.
Speaker 3 (00:04:12):
Did you ever meet Fard?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:04:14):
I believe I did. In fact, I'm convinced I did, but I can't prove this to anyone.
Speaker 3 (00:04:18):
So as a child, you might have met him?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:04:25):
Well this was long after I'm married. I'm married and had a child now and my oldest daughter Layla and I met a man, his name was Muhammad Abdullah. He passed several years ago and I met him at my father's home. He was sitting at the table, the dining table. And he was a man about the size of my father and I know now a Pakistani man who came from India very early Went through Randalls island, came to the United States in the thirties and the forties. And he kept his head down. I came in and he kept his head down. He just looked up and put his head back down. And my father said, "Son, meet this old gentleman here." He used the term loosely, unless he had some prior knowledge of him and had been relaxed with him in some relationship. He said, "Son, meet the old gentlemen. This is Muhammad Abdullah from San Francisco. Said, he said he can help me with my bronchitis. So he brought me some dried salmon," he said.This was my first time seeing this man. Then I went back to the city where I was the Minister for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Nation Of Islam in Philadelphia. I learned he contacted me himself in fact and he said, "I have a newspaper. Could you maybe take some copies from me and help me sell them?" So I didn't know. I said to him, I said, "Can you get a copy to me and let me see it? He said, "Oh sure I'll bring it today. So he did. He brought the newspaper and I looked at it carefully and the content was acceptable. I didn't see him making any trouble for me with the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, no problem. I said, "Yes, we'll take fifty from you." So he was very happy with me taking his papers. He said, "Do you know I teach Qur'an and I can help you with your arabic? I said, "I didn't know that." He said, "Do you want me to come? I can come to your house to teach you." I said yes.
Speaker 2 (00:06:38):
How old were you then?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:06:41):
Let's see, I was 30, about 34 maybe. No, no. I was a Minister for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad in Philadelphia at the time. And when I saw this gentleman, old gentleman as my father said, sitting at the dining table, when I came in, I was coming from Philadelphia to bring my monthly report to my father as most of the Ministers did from around the country. And I went back to Philadelphia where I was the Minister there. Temple #12 at that time they called it. I was Minister at Temple #12.
Speaker 3 (00:07:34):
How did Islam profess itself within the Nation of Islam?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:07:43):
Well we thought we had Islam. But after you learned better, I can't say that was Islam, but it was a strategy, a risk strategy to introduce the Qur'an into America, into the black community of America, and to mostly connect the black community of America. The ghetto, the bad areas of Detroit. And the gamble was that some of these people in this community would not be satisfied with this religion that I'm giving them. That the one who conceived the Nation Of Islam, Fard, the teacher of my father. And they will then begin to be curious and to search with critical eyes what I have given them and they will get them that this is temporary. They should go through the Qur'an and realize that it is the pure authority. That's what we established in the early years of the Nation Of Islam. During the whole period of the life of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad he always said that the only pure book was the Qur'an. And he never treated the lessons that came from his teacher and him to us, a kind of catechism like to be memorized. He never treated those very special documents of the Nation of Islam like he did the Qur'an. There was a higher respect he gave the Qur'an. But for some reason I guess his teacher Fard told him that he shouldn't bother the Qur'an, leave it for later. He didn't encourage us at all to read the Qur'an or to learn the Qur'an until much later.
Speaker 3 (00:09:47):
So his teaching was religous but more social?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:09:51):
It was exactly. It was a message for social moral uplift and social reform.
Speaker 3 (00:10:00):
So were encouraged to follow a spiritual path?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:10:03):
Oh yes. Certainly. It was religion. I have to say it was religion because there was that something that was mixed up in it. It was the idea of G-d, the divine being and that you had to be accountable to that G-d if you didn't you'd be punished for your sin, for your wrongdoing. So it was religion but it was not Islam. It definitely was not Islam. It had its own myth of creation, the origin of creation of the world, and it had its own myth of the moral nature of man.
Speaker 3 (00:10:40):
What was the myth of creation?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:10:40):
The myth of creation is that all of this generated from G-d who Himself was a material being. And nothing ever existed for G-d except material, material. That G-d was never without material existence and that G-d Himself got some power. That only, G-d created the world all around Him. He was existing. There was nothing else but Him. But when He made the world all about, all the world that we know, He made that and that G-d was a black man.
Speaker 3 (00:11:23):
Black myth.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:11:23):
Yes, exactly. And along with that was that the belief that white people did not exist. In fact, the reason for existing according to that myth was that they were created about 6,000 years ago.
Speaker 3 (00:11:46):
The white man.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:11:47):
The white man, created about 6,000 years ago by a black scientist who was experimenting on the genes of the black man and the pigmentation of the black man. And he got an idea that he could make blacks who were of a different shade, lighter shade together and continued that and every time lighter ones were turned into a more light one that eventually we wound up with a white one. And in 200 years he would have white people.
Speaker 3 (00:12:29):
What about the yellow man, the red man?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:12:32):
No, six hundred years correction, 600 years we would have white people. Well they didn't do much to explain that, but the notion was that all these races came because of that gap out of the black man, white man, that these colors came. That before he got the white man, the pure white man, he got red man, brown man, yellow man and he finally got white man.
Speaker 3 (00:13:06):
Question (Inaudible)
Speaker 2 (00:13:16):
Exactly. I know that was the exact reason, just make us feel that we got our own knowledge of everything. The white man doesn't have to tell us anything. We know the birth of creation and we know our origin and our creation, we are superior to whites.
Speaker 3 (00:13:39):
Did you go to school to study Islam?
Speaker 2 (00:13:42):
I went only to the Muslim school. My parents would not allow me or my brother and sisters to go to an school but the Muslim school. There were some members of the Temple of Islam who had some children outside, but most of the members when I was a boy had their children inside the Muslim school. And we did not have standard curriculum. We only had our curriculum. If you could call it curriculum
Speaker 3 (00:14:15):
What did you think of the life of mainstream of America?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:14:16):
As a child?
(00:14:20):
It was condemned. It was the devil's world condemned by G-d and would soon be destroyed. And he had to stick with ours, and we were going to be rescued before destruction came and taken to Mecca somewhere.
Speaker 3 (00:14:34):
Was this a lightly held belief or a serious one?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:14:37):
These were seriously held beliefs by those who were innocent and accepted it. But for me, I don't think they ever took it very seriously. They just, I would say appreciated, the renewed higher dignity and higher picture they had of themselves and appreciated the disciplines of the Nation. Islam. They saved a lot of them from liquor and drugs and taught them how to live respectful life. To respect even white folks, respect people, especially if they employed them. Give them a honest days work. So they appreciated the positive things and the teaching of the Nation Of Islam. They didn't deal with those things that would tie up their rational energy.
Speaker 3 (00:15:41):
What was the purpose of the Nation of Islam. Was it based on, was it driving towards social revolution or just rehabilitating the black community?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:15:51):
I think mainly, no, not social revolution. I think it was designed for the African-American people only, to bring about changing them only.
Speaker 3 (00:16:04):
But not overthrow, take on the police.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:16:08):
No, no, not at all. But there were some radicals that were, I would say situated to do that, yes. There were things in the teachings that they could use and I do believe some of them did. You heard of the BLM in California?
Speaker 3 (00:16:32):
Yes.
(00:16:32):
Where the daughter of the newspaper publisher joined the blacks who called themselves Black Liberation Army and they had some of these more radical teachings of the Nation of Islam and they're actually going out kiilling white folks. They killed a few white people in the San Francisco area in California.
(00:17:12):
And when we heard about their teaching we identified them as having taken the teachings of the Nation Of Islam and turned them into even a much more extreme organization. I'll give you what's in the lessons that they used. In the lessons it says Muhammad, meaning the Prophet Muhammad, and all Muslims will kill a devil and bringing four heads at one time. And the prize for doing so is a trip to the Holy City Of Mecca. So they could use that if they wanted to be violent. They could use that and that's what they did. I think they wouldn't have been able to even come up with any connection like that if it was not for an old man who was a pastor Christian Church and he was obviously hurt deeply by white society and he joined the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and he became a Minister in the Nation Islam. His name was simply R2, R2 X. And he began preaching only the more extreme and radical things of the Nation of Islam. And the Honorable Elijah Muhammad learned of that and stopped him from being a Minister. But he didn't stop meeting with people. And we know that he was on the East Coast, but he moved to the West Coast, he moved to the California area. I do believe he's dead now. He was almost 80 and joined my father. He lived a long time. He's dead now. But we do believe that he was the one who preached on the East Coast and caused the birth of the organization called 5% Percenters. The one who was really known to set up the 5% Percenters.
(00:19:26):
And what does that entail, the 5% Percenters?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:19:26):
It mean they believe in nothing but the material side and that man is G-d and we only believe in the material side and we believe we can write our own philosophy of life. Every black man has that desire, he has the ability, And thee are still 5% around. In fact the young girl in the office there her boyfriend was a 5%. And some of them are more settled than others. Her boyfriend is what I call a moderate among them, very moderate person among them. There are much worse members of that movement that teach nothing but negative things about the white man and their whole focus is just on the evils of the white man and the divinity of the black man.
Speaker 3 (00:20:35):
How old were you when you started to understand that maybe the Nation Of Islam was not the true Islam?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:20:45):
Well I can't say because I don't know, but I do know that I was about to make the only prayer that we knew in Islam. I'm sure you're familiar with prayer in Islam. The prayer in Islam is not this. This is called du'a, it means calling on G-d for help. So this is the prayer that we had. We would do it standing or sitting. But usually it would be standing. We'd stand up in the temple which is how we opened prayer in the temple and we finished Ameen. That's it. At home the same thing. We made prayer standing, not kneeling, not bowing, nothing. No sadja, no prostrations. That's it. And at home, just anytime you wanted to call on G-d, you call on G-d like this. So my parents were gone to a Temple meeting on a Wednesday night. My father said son, he said, we going to have to leave you hear tonight. My parents didn't leave me at home a lot like that, especially at night. This meeting is like eight o'clock, starts at eight and it's not expected to be over until around 10.
Speaker 3 (00:21:49):
So you were around eight, nine years old?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:21:53):
I'm about a little older than that maybe. Yes, I'm about maybe 11 or 12 years old. And my brothers, older brothers are not there at the house. They took my youngest brother with them, Akbar. They took him with them. My father, said "Son, your mother and I, we have to go to the Temple tonight. It's something special we have to do. He said, "We want you to stay here." I said yes. So they left and the house was already spooky. With everybody there it was spooky at night. You would hear cracking sounds of the floor I guess adjusting to the pressure that was on it from people walking all around. So the house is talking to me and I get a little scared and I'm getting tired. It's almost 7 o'clock, it's after 11 o'clock and they're not coming back yet. But he would do that. When he went out sometimes he'd spend long hours at the Temple. So I'm tired, I want to go to bed, so I'm getting ready to pray and I hold my hand like this. I said the prayer how we were taught. And the funny thing is in that prayer we were actually saying that Fard Muhammad was the Messenger, the Rasul of G-d. Isn't that something? The man that's supposed to be G-d taught the prayer in a way that stated he was the Messenger of G-d. "Fard Muhammad Rasul Allah." Fard Muhamamd is the Messenger of G-d. And I'm seeing his picture, as G-d in my mind, the picture that was popularized for us. I'm seeing this picture while I'm, praying. And something says in me before I begin that prayer, something motivsated me to change it. Isaid, "Oh AlIah," I made my own prayer. I said, as a boy, I'm a boy now.I said "Oh Allah, if I'm not seeing you correctly, please help me see you correctly." That's what I said. Then I said that "La Ilaha Il Allah. Ameen."
Speaker 3 (00:24:15):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:24:24):
I was afraid. I really wanted G-d to be with me. I wa afraid. Maybe this is not the way I'm supposed to see G-d.
Speaker 3 (00:24:32):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:24:39):
That's right. And that somebody is not truthful because I'm told that the white man is the devil and this man I'm looking at as G-d looks like a white man.
Speaker 3 (00:25:09):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:25:09):
It was something like I said, too much for a child.
Speaker 3 (00:25:53):
As a young boy, as a teenager, how did you begin to understand that something was not right?
Speaker 2 (00:26:00):
I think it began very early for me that the child wants speak things that the child knows but these things could put the child in trouble and maybe never get out of that trouble. We kept those things to ourselves. But often I would be with my brothers, my brother Herbert and my brother Akbar, and we would discuss certain things that was bothering our mind and didn't seem rational for us as early as 14 in my life, 15. But having difficulty with the belief that G-d was the man that we had a picture of, Mr Fard, he taught my father his ideas, began for me much earlier than that, maybe as early as 11 or seven years old. And I do believe as a boy, I remember going to the temple. I would sit and listen, I would listen. I had a lot of respect for the Nation of Islam, especially for my father. My mother put that in me and he would insist that I go to the Temple well dressed and be disciplined and she insisted I put something in charity. So she made me conscious of it, the importance of it.
(00:27:17):
She said, you don't have but a nickel give it in chairity she told me. Yes. And she would make sure. She would ask "You got anything in your pocket?" One time I remember saying, "No ma'am." She said, "Well here, take this nickel. If you don't have nothing but a nickel put something in charity." So I did. I practiced that. So I'm sitting in the seats with other members of the congregation and I'm hearing these Ministers speak and teach it. And I'm listening, I was a small child. I'm sure that I was no more than 6, 7, 5, maybe five or earlier. But I'm sitting there and I listen to what they're saying and I was entertained by them. I found it interesting.
(00:27:57):
But what stuck with me was what I got. You don't have to get things in a word by word suggestion as a sentence, a complete sentence, a correct sentence, in order for you to get a message from certain words that would be accented, from expressions on their faces. I'm getting a message. And the message I got was that we can first of all be righteous and fear G-d, obey the teachings of Islam and respect the Honorable Elijah Muhammad as a Messenger of G-d. I'm getting these things. This is what I'm getting and that I can respect all the Ministers because they're his assistants. They're working with him to do this work, his coworkers That I should have great respect for them and I did. And that we wanted to the best for our human life. We wanted a life of excellence, that we wanted to be perfectionist in trying to make our life better and better and better. So for me as a child, what I grew up holding onto and appreciating was the belief in equality, belief in justice, belief in each other and respecting everybody, even the white man that we called devils. And believing in a brotherhood and that this brotherhood is a just brotherhood. Nobody should be treated unfairly.
Speaker 3 (00:29:25):
And where did you get this from?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:29:27):
From them, from their people.
Speaker 3 (00:29:28):
Though they were preaching that the white man was the devil?
(00:29:34):
They preaching these other things too. And what was going out more than coming in was the myth that I couldn't understand about the origin of man and white man, the black man and the negative teachings against the white man. White men. For some reason I wasn't buying all that. I wasn't. I'm not saying that I didn't believe I should hate white people. I believed I should hate white people, but something in me wasn't comfortable with them drumming it into me and drumming it into the people and talking about it, giving more time to that during the teaching hours than they gave to talking about G-d and man. I was more interested in G-d and man than I was in devils.
Speaker 2 (00:30:34):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:30:35):
Exactly. The Qur'an was there. And even I would say a bait to bring us to want to one day learn arabic.
Speaker 2 (00:31:40):
When did you first learn how to read the Qur'an?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:31:40):
When my father got a teacher for us, our school in Chicago had a first teacher to teach us Arabic around 1949. The first teacher was half African American, half Moroccan. And his father took him on the ship when he was a little boy. He said his father was what you call these Merchant Marines, Merchant Marine. I believe that's what he said his father was. So he'd be on the ship with his father and his father used to speak Arabic. So he knew some Arabic but he wasn't fluent in Arabic. So my father put an ad in the daily news paper, Chicago paper, I believe it was the SunTimes, but I can't be sure. It could have been a paper that was called The Daily News at that time. Doesn't matter now. And one of the bigger papers bought it out. This man came for the job. My father hired him.
Speaker 2 (00:32:49):
How old were you?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:32:52):
13. Couldn't more than 14, 13 maybe.
Speaker 3 (00:32:55):
How old were you when you began to read the Qur'an entirely for yourself? Not in school, not being taught, but because you wanted to know.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:33:02):
Well that took some time, but I began reading, trying to read the Qur'an for myself, myself and my brother Akbar, younger brother who also were students under Professor Jamil Diab. He's the third teacher. The first two teachers, they did not work too well. The first one because I don't know, he was just not serious about it. The second one was very serious, an old religious man, but he was very old. He couldn't speak English well enough to be successful. He was trying to teach us Arabic but he couldn't speak English. So he taught us two lessons. He said, I'm not able to teach you because I can't speak English well enough so I won't be able to do be your teacher. So he closed the class up and he had tears in his eyes when he had to leave us.
Speaker 3 (00:34:32):
And where was you next Arabic teacher from?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:34:32):
That would have been Professor Jamil Diab who was from Jerusalem. That was his home. He was a citizen of the United States and had lived in Chicago for many years. Half of his life maybe. He spoke very good English and he was intelligent enough to know and respectful enough to know that he should not do anything to interfere with the Nation of Islam. So he couldn't say anything, or teach us anything regarding that. But he won my father's friendship and my father supported him as a teacher for the whole time that he was our teacher, our instructor. And under him we learned to read small Surahs from the Qur'an, small chapters from the Qur'an with my father actually making it possible and encouraging it.
Speaker 3 (00:35:37):
So it was here that you begin to understand that what you were discovering was not the Islam that was being taught.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:35:44):
Yes. Understand now that as a human being, as an innocent child and as a human being, I'm having difficulty understanding something that was not rational all the time. But I'm not at all trying to prove it wrong. I love my father and mother. I love the Nation Of Islam. I love the Ministers. I love everything about it. I'm really a strong Muslim of the Nation Of Islam. So I found myself trying to make it fit or at least justify what the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was saying and doing. That went on for a long time.
Speaker 3 (00:36:39):
Did ever tell your father how you were feeling?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:36:44):
No, I did not. But he understood it and he didn't bother me. The first time that I spoke as a young student Minister, well not even a student Minister at the time, a young boy. A young boy making an attempt to impress the congregation that maybe I can be a student Minister. The Minister would invite anybody to stand up and come up and express themselves to see if there was a possibility for someone to become a young Minister. So they opened up for youngsters or others to come up and teach. The Minister was named Minister James at that time. He later became James Shabazz, a well known loved person by us. He said, "We want some of you young brothers to come up." And my friend Leroy, this is my buddy. we hang out. He's sitting over here and he said, "I'm going up." And I was surprised when he said that. Although I knew he didn't have a terrible problem of stage fright that I had. I was terrified to go up. And he did a good job. He did a good job. So he sat back down.
(00:38:09):
I didn't say anything to him, but with my eyes I was saying "Man, you did a good job. You did alright. You did a good job." So he looked at me and he said, "You scared?" I went up then. When I went up, I got up out of my seat and I went up there and I was so afraid. And when I looked at the people and I saw their faces and now that I think back on it, they were so happy to see Wallace D Mohammed, the son of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad coming up to speak. So I looked at their faces and they were asking me to speak. And it just happened automatically for me. I came out. The true me, came out, I said, "We talk about the devil more than we talk about G-d."
(00:39:04):
I said something wrong with that. I said, we shouldn't say in the name of WD Fard and then we teach that Christians couldn't say in the name of Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is not G-d. He's a Prophet, not G-d. I said that we say In the Name of Allah and in the name of the Messenger, Honorable Elijah Muhammad. I said you all should say In the Name of Allah and we thank Allah for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. That was the first time I had ever spoke and I doubt it that I was no more than about 17, 18 then. And my father never stopped me and never criticized me for that. But the Supreme Captain did. And he took it back to my father and said, "He's saying something different." But my father never confronted me. I know the Captain, the Captain that relayed that information to my father because I was told by my brothers and others told me he did it. And he never changed. But the Minister himself, who was my senior, also my teacher from the school, Minister James. He started saying it. He never said it the old way anymore. He said "In the name of Allah and we thank Allah for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And it went all over.
Speaker 3 (00:40:49):
When you went up that first time, did you understand that something had changed in your life?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:40:55):
Yes. I did realize that I wanted to help my father make a better congregation, make his followers a better congregation. I was aware of that. And later in my years right afterI had a child, wife and child, my first child Laila, a daughter. I began to realize that it was something in the teachings of my father that was pushing me when I was not conscious of it. Now I'm aware of it, at maybe 39 or 40 I'm aware that I'm just not doing this on my own. There's something in his teachings that driving me to do this.
Speaker 3 (00:41:48):
Something from the teachings.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:41:48):
Yes, yes sir. Being pushed by two. One the good rational people, spirit and language of the Nation Of Islam. And the other side, there is my desire to be the human being that I think is the true human being. And to be that with all other human beings.
Speaker 3 (00:42:19):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:42:24):
Humane person, a kind person, a person higher than the animals, et cetera. I started to appreciate that concept of man more and more and want to be that man, that man, that ideal man more and more. And I started to appreciate language and the American society that encouraged that kind of thing. So I chose to appreciate the Constitutions concept of human beings and the Constitution of the United States concept of a human being. And this democracy's respect for the human being.
Speaker 3 (00:43:05):
What do you think are the highest values of humanity?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:43:26):
First of all, kindness for self and others, kindness for ourself and others. And truthfulness, truthfulness. Many other values, but I think that's where I start.
Speaker 3 (00:43:47):
You went to prison when you were 31.
Imam WD Mohammed (00:43:51):
Yes, you're right. You got it.
Speaker 3 (00:43:54):
What were you in for?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:43:56):
Well actually the members of the Nation Of Islam followed the Honorable Elijah Muhammad's lead. And during World War ii, that was a draft. My father told his followers that we could not accept a draft card. They didn't even get a draft card. Now here it is 1952. And I could register for the draft at 18. And my father opposed us going to prison. So I told my father, I said, "I'm going to have to go to jail." So he said, "Well son maybe I can beat it. I'm going to get some lawyers. He got some terrific lawyers and they worked to just keep me out of jail. They went on in the courts for almost seven years and the Selective Service accepted that I wasa conscientous objector. They got me classified as a conscietous objector.
(00:45:06):
So they ordered me to go to Elgin State Hospital to do civilian work as a selective service person. So I told my father, I said, daddy, I said, "I have a chance to go to Elgin State Hospital and learn laboratory, to be a laboratory technician." Because I inquired and they told me I could. I said, "I would like to do that and when I come out, I'll be able to earn more money." He said, "Son, that would be the same as going. So you shouldn't have never gone through all that then. You should have just went to the army." I said, "Well, they don't...." He said, I know. He cut me off.
(00:45:56):
He would never say, don't do it. So I go on with this because in my heart I'm saying I want to obey my father but really I want go to that hospital, not to prison.
Speaker 3 (00:46:28):
When you went to prison at Allison, how long were you in prison for?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:46:32):
I was in prison for about 14 months. When I first came up for parole I was denied. They didn't even tell me why I was denied. But the second time I went up, i was released.
Speaker 3 (00:46:49):
How was prison?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:46:49):
It was difficult for me because I love my freedom. I love to be with my family. I love my freedom. It was very difficult to be away from them. I would imagine so much happening outside. I wouldn't imagine those things happening if I was in a normal situation. Imagining that my daughter would walk into street and get ran over, something like that, almost had nightmares. It was very difficult. I remember a young man younger than me. He might have been maybe 20, right? Woke me up at night crying.
(00:48:45):
I didn't say anything to him, but the next day I got closer to him and we became good friends. His wife, they had just married and now they were seperating. I too, I had more time with my wife than he had. But I was certainly missing my wife, the comfort of my wife.
Speaker 3 (00:49:21):
Was he Christian?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:49:21):
Yes he was. I'm not sure. I think he was Jehovah Witness. And I accepted him as my friend. Didn't matter what color he was. Prison will do that to you. You got a friend in prison you rarely see any color.
Speaker 3 (00:49:26):
While you were away, was anything changing in the Nation Of Islam?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:49:59):
Yes, was already changing before I went to prison. I'm hearing now that we have to make the teachings of the Nation Of Islam more appealing for people who are free thinkers. In fact, I think when I told them that we are telling people that the Christians are wrong to believe that Jesus is G-d yet here we are saying the same thing. So even then I was beginning to be feel very uncomfortable with the teachings and I was trying to do something about it. When I was in prison I had a lot of help to think freely, think independently.
(00:53:13):
It was in prison I decided once I got back to the streets I would never teach that teaching again. When they released me, they ordered me not to do any public speaking. That was a condition for my parole. That I do no public speaking. And my father liked that. Went I went home and I found out that he he was very positive about me not teaching in public. And when I began to speak other then them, it was after I had been invited on the radio station by an African American host, one female host to come on her show. She had learned that I was a kind of open-minded Muslim who had an interest in not just black people to be converted but just black people. And I also was aware that a lot of the members and Ministers of the Nation Of Islam would be listening because it had been advertised that the son of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad was going to appear on the show. So I know that I can't come out with something that will be seen as an attack upon the Nation Of Islam ideas. So I chose to talk about nothing but myth. I said in my opinion, the biggest problem for us, black people and all Americans is not the things that we are always addressing, but this fantasy world that we accept as truth. I said myths and fairy tales. And she liked my conversation. So she encouraged me to write a book on this. "If you write a book, will you come back?" I said, I certainly will. Well the FOI is on they're alert to know when one of us is doing something. They had a recording. They had somebody bring the tape to my father. My father called me and said "Son, you have a tape here."
Speaker 3 (00:56:25):
And what year was this?
Imam WD Mohammed (00:56:25):
This was 1972. When they brought this tape of the interview that was done by this host, they thought they were going to get me put out of the Nation Of Islam again because I had been excommunicated before, I had been put out before. This is on a Sunday. And my father, he said, "Son we have a tape of you on the radio saying some things that concern the Ministers." So he told my cousin Sultan, his nephew who was like a nurse to my father,as my father was not in his best health. Every Sunday we have at this big long conference table dinner. But at that table you could expect almost anything. That table could turn from a dinner table all of a sudden to court. We could have court at that table. So all of his top staff is there. He said "Sultan, get that tape and put it on." And they did. Now the tape is going on, and my father at one point stood up. He stood up, he applauded and he looked at my mother. He said "Clara, isn't this what we wanted. Isn't this what we prayed for?"
(00:58:33):
My mother smiled, that beautiful blackface lit up with her beautiful smile. She gave that big beautiful smile. She said Yes. I looked at the faces of the staff. I looked at their faces to see how they were taking that. I looked at the Supreme captain and his assistant Minister then who was Yusef Shaw. And my brother was there.He said "My son can go anywhere he want and teach that teaching." And remember at that time I wasn't allowed to make any public lectures or teachings. "My son can go anywhere and teach." He looked at me and he said "Son, teach that doctrine."
Speaker 3 (00:59:28):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (00:59:31):
No, no, no. But I was free to go about the United States where we had Temples and accept invitations from them to speak. And I started getting them. I got 'em. I went to New York, Boston, Philadelphia. I went all over. I went to areas in the Midwest. I went to all the big Temples. I went to California, all over.
Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:00:07):
And I'm speaking as a person now who as a Minister now who have been given special privleges from the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. And these Ministers, there witnessing the fact that I have more priveleges and support they have ever known me to have before.
(01:00:36):
I am building a new thinking in the following of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. He himself had encourage me to do this. I am telling them that they have to prepare for change that's coming. I said change is coming. I said we're not always going to do things the way we do them. And I used my father's language. I said, he said one day there will come a new teacher. And he said that teacher in that new time would not necessarily be held or bound to any of the old things or old ideas. I said he may come with an altogether new message that may not use any of the old language. I said that you should be prepared. I said, I have learned how to read the Holy Qur'an in Arabic by a teacher who my father hired.I said, and I advise the ministry to learn more, understand more of the Arabic Qur'an. I said you don't understand right now. But if you put more effort into understanding the Qur'an you will come across a whole new knowledge.
(01:02:37):
So no one preveneted me from doing that. But I was told that some of, a few of the Ministers were very uncomfortable with me and one of them was Minister Farrakhan. He was the Minister of New York. They were very uncomfortable with me, but I was to do that. So this the beginning of me being a factor, a main factor in the bringing about change in the following of the Nation Of Islam.
Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
You spoke earlier of changing the mind and the spirit.
Imam WD Mohammed (01:02:59):
I was speaking directly as far as my intent, but I was speaking indirectly as far as the reality to the following of my father.
Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:08:51):
Islam and the Islamic world perhaps are not understood, known on the level that Christianity is understood, known in America. And it's because of many of the scholars of Islam say now we don't have really Islamic government, Islam, for many Muslim governments is persecuted, believers are persecuted. They are not allowed the freedom to live and practice the religion.
Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
So you wouldn't cal the government in Iran an Islamic government?
Imam WD Mohammed (01:09:33):
I would call it an Islamic government. Yes, it's an Islamic government. The reason there is different from the most of the Islamic situations we see in the world. I think the first reason is ignorance of their own religion. Of our own religion. And when you have political conflict and you have desperate person who are desperate to get their lives back in their own hands, but the lands have been occupied by what they call foreigners, then you find those who are willing to turn to perhaps a military man who's not perhaps religous himself, but we would also have a religious man, a spiritual man assisting him. And these two, both of them, political revolution, violent revolution and they'll begin to recruit. And the people they recruit, most of them will be people who don't know their religion that well. So they can be violent.
(01:11:01):
I'm not saying all these organizations are wrong. The people are bad. I'm not saying that because I don't believe that to be true. But what I'm saying is the methods they us to accomplish their end is not approved by the Qur'an, not approved by Muhammad the Prophet, not reflecting what is real Islam. To make the innocent pay for the guilty is not Islam. Not accepted no kind of way. No way can we to justify that. Like taking hostages innocent people or hostages taking hostages. An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth is not Islam.
Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:11:50):
Because they don't know that. And they're led by people that they respect. They're not knowledge authorities. But these people have been so psychologically damaged that they ignore certain Islamic principles. I'm talking about their generals. I'm talking about the advisors, the religious advisors to the generals. These people are so hurt by what has happened, that they can't temper the rhetoric down and they don't care to temper the rhetoric.
Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:12:22):
That could be considered Islam by some people if they go back and pull something out of history. But in my opinion justification for it doesn't exist. Because an apostate was killed in the time of the Prophet. He wasn't killed for rejecting Islam or for turning down Islam and going another religion. He was killed for being a turncoat. This ruling was a ruling against persons who would go to the enemy side and change religions and be with the enemy during war. So actually it was treason during wartime and it was punishable by death since these history as who their religion for another religion. And so because this person changed religions, they look at only that and ignore all the rest and say yes it's ok to kill a person for changing their religion.
Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
Why do those who lean towards fundamentalism in general, whether it be Christian or Hindu or Islam, why do fundamentalist approach religion with a violent attitude?
Imam WD Mohammed (01:14:14):
Because they are responding more to what's hurting us, what's paining us then they are to the commandments of G-d. That's the reason for it.
(01:14:19):
Question (Inaudible)
(01:14:19):
Well, in certain cases we're supposed to be intolerant. Not that we're supposed to be tolerant in all conditions and in all circumstances, no. Sometimes we have to be intolerant. But if a thing that we go to that causes any moral society to see us in a bad image, that wouldn't happen if we did not let our feelings blind us to obedience to G-d. Muhammad the Prophet, and the Ulema and the Scholars would have to agree if they are being honest. He told his armies that you are not to attack any unarmed person. Only those armed. And he said don't even harm their fruit trees, their livestock, the things they have to live on. We're talking about a humane leader Muhammad the Prophet. Very humane leader. And in spite of what the Western world in some of it's literature says about Prophet Muhammad being a warmonger he was not that. He hated war. He hated to go to war, Hated to kill anybody. The revelation, had to come to him from G-d saying, now you're permitted to go to war. And the the reason was that thier people had been killed. They were being persecuted and killed.
Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Brother Imam, could you tell us how Islam is a religion of peace.
Imam WD Mohammed (01:16:21):
How is it a religion of peace. It's a religion of peace because the main purpose of Islam is to invite us to have a relationship with G-d, to satisfy that need in soul to be at peace and a relationship with man that makes it much more easier for us to have peace on this earth. And that relationship with man is that you accept that all men are created by the same G-d and that all men are one human family, belongs to one human family, and that we are all descended from one set of parents, Adam and his mate. It's the fact that we believe that all of us are descendants from one man and one woman, one father, one mother. Religion is intended to give us a picture of ourselves as a family in spite of our separate famiies. To give us a picture of us as one family in the beginning and the message is to us that as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end. That in the end you have to accept that you're one human family in order for us to have peace on earth. The religion of Islam, and all religions is all about peace. You don't have religion if you don't have a feeling of peace in your soul and believing that there's cause, reason for all this and G-d is the first cause.
Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
How does the Qur'an differ?
Imam WD Mohammed (01:18:34):
The Qur'an differs from the Torah and what we call the Old Testament and what we call the gospel or the New Testament in it's purpose in insisting that G-d is one and you make nothing else a G-d with G-d. Even though you translate it as expressions of the one, G-d is one, but he expresses himself as Jesus Christ and as the Holy Ghost, this theory or idea is not accepted by Islam. But not only is Jesus accepted, but also Christ is accepted. Yes, we believe that Jesus is also Christ and we believe in the Immaculate Conception. We don't call it that, that language is Christian, but we believe that Jesus Christ is not the son of a man. That Jesus Christ is the word of G-d and a spirit from G-d. The word of G-d and a spirit from G-d more.
Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:20:12):
The Qur'an is more rhythmic. I would say in reference to sound, more clarity.
Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:20:45):
Yes, I can. Wal Asr. Ina Insana Lafi Qusra. Ila La Dhina Anmanut. Wa Amanut Salahati Wa Ta Watsal Bil Haqq Wa Ta Watasu Bil Sabe. That is a Surah called Time Down Through The Ages. Real small chapter. It begins by saying concerning the hour, surel all people, all mankind, is lost except those who have faith and they have righteous deeds. And they work together towards truth and they cooperate for patience.
Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
Why has Islam been so maligned in North America?
Imam WD Mohammed (01:22:05):
Good people and bad people have been given power, power to rule nations. And many times it's a bad person and we don't need too many bad people to have the opportunity to mess things up. came to this new part of the world. We opposed and documented.
(01:22:42):
Question (Inaudible)
(01:22:49):
I can't recall the author or the name of the publication right now. But it appears many publications now by Muslims. The first Muslims were on the ships that came from Spain. And we know that Muslims have been in Detroit maybe 50 years, a long time. And in some parts of New world, Portugal. Yeah, Portugal too and some other South American states Muslims have been there for a long time. Few centuries. Also the Muslims of Detroit, the Ohio area, as well as Chicago have been here at least for 150 years or better.
Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
And in the black community?
Imam WD Mohammed (01:24:20):
The beginning of the Ahmadiyya teachers of Islam coming into America and coming into the black community.
Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
And in what year?
Imam WD Mohammed (01:24:34):
I think I'm pretty sure 19, 20, 29, it was here. Maybe little earlier but at least 19290's.
Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:25:16):
It was introduced into the black community by preachers from the Ahmadiyya movement. It was introduced as the natural inheritance of all people, and you more than any other people, the blacks, us, have been cut off from your inheritance more than any other people. You could know Islam is the natural inheritance of all humanity, of all people. I think that was it's strongest appeal. The fact that the African American people had been cut off from African history and culture. We have suffered identity problems and we're looking for our human content you know. We don't think we have it all back yet, but the appeal for us is to get our heritage. Our human heritage, I would say. This was a big reference for the African American community. Many rejected Islam not because that didn't appeal to them, it's because the religion itself is not as appealing to them as the emotionality of other religions. I don't think that's our fault. I think it's the fault of slavery and the after affects of slavery.
Speaker 3 (01:27:54):
Question (Inaudble)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:28:06):
(Inaudible)
Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:29:08):
About religion?
Speaker 3 (01:29:09):
Yes.
(01:29:10):
Question (Inaudible)
Imam WD Mohammed (01:29:22):
You have a higher authority that you can use as your defense that G-d said this.


