00/00/1999
IWDM Study Library 
Interview with Vernon Fareed
Washington, DC

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
...This is an interview conducted in Washington D.C. with Imam W. Deen Mohammed. The interview is being conducted by Imam Vernon M. Fareed. The basic questions will deal with Tauheed and Salat InshaAllah. Okay, first, Brother Imam, would you explain the concept of Tauheed?
IWDM:
Yes. Tauheed comes from the word one, Wahid, Wahid, which means one. And it could be called oneness. The name could be translated to Oneness. It could be translated as Oneness, it could be translated as unity. But, I think to translate it as unity, we'd still have to have Oneness there somewhere. A Oneness and a unity. Tauheed. The Oneness and the unity. The Oneness is to be understood, in the Oneness of the creation. The creation is one system of matter and that has always suggested, even before we understood it through the language of modern science, it has always been perceived. That has always been the perception of the thinkers, especially the highest thinkers, called Messengers and Prophets. They perceive the whole creation as a Unitarian. A whole. And that brought them to the belief that G-d must be One. That there must be One G-d, one artist for this great art we see, we call the beautiful universe of heavenly stars, and everything. And man, life and everything.
So, Tauheed takes our mind first, to the unity of matter, this material creation. And then, it leads us to believe that there is a designer, a Creator for all of this. The beautiful art and the consistency of its logic suggest that there is a beautiful G-d for this beautiful creation, and that is G-d, the beauty. He is the beauty. He's the source of all beauty, G-d. And that's the Tauheed. That's the meaning of Tauheed.
We believe that this world is created by G-d, and that this world, pardon me, bears the design of G-d on it. G-d's design on it. And expressed that His will, His plan and His will for the universe and man. That's the meaning of Tauheed. One system of matter and One artist, or G-d that created all things.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
And how does it work to advance freedom?
IWDM:
When we accept that we belong to a system that G-d created for us, and that there's a logic supporting that system, and man's life is just one aspect of that system, then there's a logic supporting man's life too, and the logic that supports man's life is universal. The same logic that supports the African life supports the European's life, you know? It's all one logic supporting our life. Humanity is one family that's what we arrive at. That humanity is one family, having one father, or one ancestral origin in what we call in the three sister religions, our major religions, Adam our parent and Eve, our mother. So, it serves to give us a sense of belonging as human beings, as members of one family, one human family, that's basic to all of our other perceptions of ourselves. We perceive ourselves directly as members of the African family tree, and Europeans as members of the European family tree. We perceive ourselves very correctly as such, but what's more important, we don't have the roots on any tree at all, unless we have human content.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right.
IWDM:
And G-d gave us our excellent human content.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Now, I've come to believe that Qadar works to support the continuity of Tauheed. If this is true, could you elaborate on that? Is that true?
IWDM:
Yes, the Qadar. Yes, I would have to agree with that. That Qadar is not only to be seen, in all contexts. But the Qadar is to be seen in the workings of the universe. The workings of the universe. The working of the universe to keep the balance of creation, and to keep the universe progressing. So, the Qadar in the moral context of our life is good and bad. Good and bad. The regulations of benefit and harm. Qadar MinAl Fisha. The regulation of the benefits, the good benefits, and the harm that comes is all determined by G-d, Most High. That's the expression I've just given in Arabic, in English now. So, in the moral context, if we approach the sister lawfully, we get the good, the hiya of G-d. But, if you approach her unlawfully, then we get the Shar, the harm of that incorrect approach to her, yes. So, that's how it works morally.
Similarly, to our conscience. If we give our thoughts to harmful things, we're going to get the harm. Or, if we approach it with no sense of the proper use of it, we're most likely going to get the harm from it.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right.
IWDM:
Yes. So, this is the Qadar of G-d in a moral context. But, the Qadarr of G-d also ... I'm a student of science, general science, and love science. But I read in the science books, the theory for how this universe evolved and I look at what G-d says too, that the universe was created not out of this great and vast creation of material things, that it was in a state of confusion. It was in a state of turmoil. And G-d says to it, "Come in order. Come in order peacefully. Willingly or resisting." And this is what science says. Matter tends to look for harmony, and it also tends to resist. Put up resistance. But the resistance is to bring about what the Qadar of G-d is bringing about, and that in fact, it is the Qadar of G-d. The resistance of the expression of the Qadar of G-d.
It happened yet, it's the condition that G-d wants for it. So, it's seeking its condition that G-d wants for it. And when the agreement comes, it's the same way, same thing. The agreement is coming because it is seeking the conditions that G-d wants for it. And resistance is for agreement.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right.
IWDM:
It is resisting to come to an agreement.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right. We can also say that the creation is working for diversity and unity at the same time. Is that-
IWDM:
Yes, it's working for growth, and diversity is the process of growth. G-d created male and female unalike, and humans alike. The human of the male and the human of the female are alike. But G-d created us physiologically and socially unalike. So, the unalike is what we need to multiply the human entity. And we need diversity to spread growth.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Allhamdulilah. How do people of other faiths benefit from this content, if they were to adopt the content for Tauheed? How can people of other faiths benefit from it?
IWDM:
Tauheed puts us in a situation to get maximum performance, and maximum good results from our efforts. Mainly. If you don't have Tauheed, maybe you have a burden on you of racism, and racism stands in the way of social performance and social growth. We can only grow so far as social creatures, and progress so far, with racism. The world has now become one global community, economically speaking, and maybe even morally speaking, now. The world has one universal condition that is insisting that we have a moral logic that respects everybody equally, you know? So, the world is becoming one morally for the human family, and it has become one economically for the human family.
So, I think if a racist would try to have a place in this new world, he would find it very difficult. Very difficult. There would be no social progress for him. His social progress would be restricted, and more importantly, his economic progress would be restricted, because the world of economics has no place for racism.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Okay. So, we get the impression that whenever one works against Tauheed, they really work expediting, really, their own death. Is that-
IWDM:
I would agree with that. They're cutting off their future growth. They're limiting their future growth and they're dooming themselves to annihilation one day in the future.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
The next section of questions deal with Salat, Brother Imam. This first question we have is, are there any Sunnahs before Asr?
IWDM:
Before Asr? Some say there are, but I'm inclined to believe that there is no Sunnah before Asr, at least not in congregation. But anyone can pray any prayer he likes, you know? I go into a Masjid at any time, I don't care what time it is, and if it's a Masjid that I've never visited before, I'm aware that the people built this Masjid they're good people. I like to do two rakahs to greet it, but that's just the practice of our Prophet.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Mm-hmm. Now Allah tells us in the Qur'an to guard the middle prayer and as you know, some regard this as a the Fajr prayer and others regard this as the Asr prayer. So, what is your position on this?
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
IWDM
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
I'm not sure that it's Asr. It could be Zuhr. I know the Friday prayer, which is the most important day and the most important of our prayers in congregation, it comes at noontime. Just after noon. So, I'm not sure. I tend to think that that mid-prayer could be referring to the Jumu'ah prayer and it also could be referring to that time. Asr time. Possibly, there's strong reasons to believe that it's referring to Asr. This is kind of philosophical in nature, but Asr means ... the word juice comes from the same meaning. Asir means juice. And juice comes from ... now, you can get it from many ways, but juice came from crushing, squeezing, crushing the fruit, you know? To make the juice come out, like we squeeze the orange to make the juice come out. But, I think it refers to straining in the soul. Straining in the soul.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Yes.
IWDM:
Straining in the soul to get the results for the soul. The good results for the soul, you know? Strains to G-d in the soul to get, from G-d, the good results that will help the soul, that will benefit the soul. So if this is the prayer that it's talking about, Asr prayer, that's it's talking about, then I can understand it, because after Asr comes Maghrib.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right.
IWDM:
And Maghrib is the setting of the sun, and rest time, you know? Rest time. And soon night, and then sleep. So, I think it's a critical time. It could be referring to a critical time for civilization, before the lights go out, you know?
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
And even a critical time in the day, in the course of man's life. In their life.
IWDM:
Right, yes, for civilization itself. Civilization is straining to keep right, to keep the light on. And darkness is coming, it's inevitable, you know? The soul is straining hard ... that's the soul of civilization ... straining hard to have the condition to survive the night. Yes.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
But you do reject the notion, or the logic that the middle prayer is the Fajr prayer based on our day beginning at Maghrib time? Some say, in other words, that the Maghrib is the first prayer and Isha is the second prayer, then Fajr is the middle prayer. They use that logic to say that Fajr is the middle prayer. Based on that logic, that our day begins at Maghrib. Do you reject that logic?
IWDM:
Well, no. I can't totally reject that logic either, because we know that scripture, not just our scripture, but that comes from a more ancient tradition of culture, believing that the night precedes the day, and the first day begins at night. The Bible says, in Genesis, "And the Eve, and the morning was the first day". So that means day begins, according to Genesis, with the sunset, Eve. With the sunset, that's Mahgrib. And the day ends with the sunset. The night comes, that night and the morning makes the first day. So, I'm inclined to believe that there's some justification for that kind of reading. Yes. So, we can't be too sure.
But I think the Prophet himself stressed the importance of making the morning prayer so strongly, that I doubt that's applying to the second prayer. Because, the Prophet, I'm sure, when he would stress a thing that was very important, if there was a reference from the Qur'an, he would give the reference from the Qur'an. So, when he said that sometimes he'd think to set puddles of fire where people were sleeping at certain times ... Not that he would do that. He indicated that he wouldn't do that. But the people should be warned that if they neglect their prayers, the fires of hell would be there, so they should realize that they're setting their own homes afire by neglecting the Fajr prayer. So, the Prophet gives us such a strong warning against neglecting Fajr prayers makes me think that the Word of G-d is referring to the middle prayer is not referring to the Fajr prayer.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Okay. Now, in the of the Qur'an, Allah gives some instructions on washing for preparation for Salat. But the language of the Qur'an itself uses the word Tasilu for ghusl But in context, many Muslims tend to interpret that as the instructions for wudu. Can you comment on that? In other words-
IWDM:
The washing of the hands?
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Yes. Where tells us in the fifth Surah of the Qur'an, wash their hands and wash their face, et cetera.
IWDM:
Yes.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
But the language in the Qur'an-
IWDM:
Yes. The verb is from the noun form for bath.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right.
IWDM:
Yes. The Arabs, they had this...This is the Arab usage of the term wash, and when it takes the noun form, ghusl, it means washing all over. But used as a verb, yahsin, means just to wash anything. Actually anything. It usually refers to your body. But, if you wash your clothes too, you can say yahsin, your clothes. It's just the washing of anything. Yahsin is the verb form. The reason why wudu, all these terms have specific meanings, as you know. They have specific meanings that have importance in the context of scripture. Yahsin, ghusl, full bath, has meaning in the context of scripture. And wudu, has meaning in the context of scripture.
Wudu suggests light, you know? Not really washing with water or anything. Wudu suggests light and the Prophet said, in the afterlife, there will be people who have light on their hands. There will be light radiated from their hands and their feet, and he said that will be the light of wudu. So, the wudu suggests light. And you could take a wudu and not be clean at all. You could do wudu and not be clean at all.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Okay.
IWDM:
Yes.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right.
IWDM:
Yes, you understand me?
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Yes.
IWDM:
Yeah. You could do a wudu and not be clean at all. You could be very filthy. But no one would think himself in wudu, because of the Prophet. No one would take himself in wudu if his body wasn't washed, if it needed washing. So, he would have to have a bath for his wudu to be acceptable. If his body was filthy, his body parts. So, it has specific meaning. And you can substitute wudu by doing tayanum under certain conditions. If there is no clean water available.
Now, I've been to some places ... I wasn't going to mention this, but this is important. I've been some places where I picked up water to use, to wash my mouth, and I smelled the water before it hit my mouth. I smelled it with my hand. I could tell the water was not clean. The water had some bad smells. So, I refused to do wudu with that water. Which I should have, because for the water to be an acceptable solution it has to be colorless, tasteless, odorless, right. And no impurities seen by my eyes. I look at it, I see no impurities in it.
So sometimes, in a modern industrial country, or someplace else in the world, you would have water, but that water doesn't fit. So, what you do? You use tayanum. And tayanum is using dry, clean earth. Dry, clean, natural earth. Sand, preferably, but if not sand, any dry, clean, natural earth. Not manmade product, but dry, clean, natural earth. It's a stone, a clean stone, wipe your hand on it, wipe your hand on it, and then wipe your face, and you're ready for prayer. You have done tayanum, which is acceptable when there is not suitable water.
So, why I say all that? To say this. The washing with the yahsin, the hands, up to the elbow and the face for wudu] as given in the Qur'an, though the term washing is used, there's also, we know, associated with ghusl, the meaning of bath, a full bath, we should understand that these terms have specific meanings, and these meanings are not only important for the ritual, the physical acts that we are doing, but it's important for our illumination, for our enlightenment, because they have specific meaning in the context of scripture.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Because really, the same verses tell us that tahara is a requirement to satisfy being in a state of junut.
IWDM:
That's right.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right?
IWDM:
To be pure.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
To be pure.
IWDM:
That's right.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Right, okay. Now, Brother Imam, also, as we know, there are many variations of how to make wudu among Muslims. Some of them, for example, use the back of their hands to wipe their necks and they do all kinds of things. Some of them put their thumbs in their ears, they wipe over the whole head at one time. So, would you describe what is the correct procedure for me to make wudu?
IWDM:
Well, I think the way that the majority Muslims perform wudu, is the way that I feel comfortable performing wudu. And that is to wash the right hand three times, and the left hand three times. The mouth, cupping the hand and putting water into the mouth three times. The nose, by sniffin water into the open nostrils, not in to the head like some people may do, but just into the nostrils. That open area we call the nostrils, and releasing it, and taking the hands, and washing the face, three times. Two hands, cup with two hands, and put water over the face three times. And then washing the right arm from the wrist to the elbow, three times. Or from the hand down. Letting the water run down, from the hands down to the elbow. Three times. And then the left arm, three times. Down to the elbow three times.
And then with the right hand, you take your hand, now to me, this is the correct way, but all of us don't do it that way. You should take the right hand and put it at the base of your neck, back of your head. Base of neck, right? The back of the head. And move it forward to the forehead, to the front of the face, and then go back to the back of the neck. So, it's a movement starting from the base of the base, back of the neck, over the head, to the forehead, and stopping at the hairline, above the forehead. And then going back the way you came and bringing the hands right back to the place of origin.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Over the mountain.
IWDM:
Huh?
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Over the mountain and between the hills.
IWDM:
Yes. And that completes the head. And then you take your hands, and put your hands under water. Both hands under the water. That's water on both hands. And then you shake the water off. You don't want excess water. You shake the water off. And with a damp finger, the index fingers of both hands. You go in the crevices of the head, beginning at the back of the head, the bottom in the back of the head, and you follow that through until you end up in the hole of the ear. Right in the hole of the ear. And then you bring them down. Bring the fingers down like that. The index fingers down like this. And then you take the thumb, the damp thumb, and go up the back. All the way to the top. And then go back down where you came. And that completes the ears.
And then wash the right foot three times, and wash the left foot three times, making sure that the water comes up at least above the ankle.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
I got some questions for the time, I think, Brother Imam, we may have to complete this later on in the day, Insha Allah.
IWDM:
All right.
Imam Vernon M. Fareed:
Thank you for your time.
IWDM:
Thank you.



