11/24/1984
IWDM Study Library
IWDM Meeting with Regional Imams

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Meeting with Imam W.D. Muhammad and All Regional Representatives held on November 25, 1984 in Chicago, Illinois on 10 year of progress. Meeting was chaired by Imam Munir Fareed of Camden, NJ.

Chair: As far as the overall planning in terms of our sharing and splitting the workload everything has worked out very well. We got great cooperation from the Imams in the Region. Once we broke everything down it was our responsibility as Imams, as regional representatives to go back to the region and actually teach the Imams and impart to the Imams all that we have discussed with you in the past meeting. And also, all of the information that was broken down and the responsibility that was broken down to different area and also find out our expertise in the different areas. And praises to Allah things have worked out very well.
Now, this particular meeting here that we had this morning in fact, it acts to bring back that information organized. The point that we are at right now is basically preaching the message of the Ten Years of Progress, putting documentation, information in papers, in our paper the AM Journal, as well as the local efforts. The things weve talked about to you before in terms of you going around to different regions that is going to play a intricate part and again were going to come to these things in full but Im just trying to give you a general idea.
IWDM: May I ask a question? When you say the preaching the information of the Ten Years of Progress what do you mean? I cant
Chair: Yes sir. Simply in other words making the community aware of its upcoming presence. In other words of its coming up and our involvement as the AMM in
IWDM: Promoting it?
Chair: Promoting it, thats right. Thats what we mean by, thats what I meant, Im just using my own language. Excuse my language. Now, what we did brother Imam is from the things that we extracted before from you and what we came up with, we do now have some logos, we wanted you to see those logos. Weve come up with a date for the program, based on our getting the facilities an everything. We have all of that as it was now it will be April 20th and 21st, Insha Allah.
We know that we stated May, but for the better figure, the better price its the 20th and the 21st
IWDM: In Detroit?
Chair: Yes sir, in Detroit. And of course, we talked about the weather and everything before so the weather should be breaking around then. So, it looks like it will be April the 20th and 21st and of course that is a Saturday and Sunday, because we talked about the problems before with Jumah and all the kind of layout we have to have and all of that so it will be a Saturday and Sunday. (Imam agrees with all of this).
The other little intricate areas, again, were still working on those areas but, the areas of responsibility have been assumed by the different regions and information is coming in. 
IWDM: Imam Clyde Rahman, I thought he was out there. I thought he was on this. You didnt want him to come in?
Chair: No, its no problem with us. In other words, this is the group that you met with before, we thought that you just wanted to meet with this group.
IWDM: I see. I dont know, since hes here maybe
Chair: Fine, fine. No problem. Thats what you want. Now, what wed like to do at this point beginning with this process, brother Imam if we could possibly show you these logos and get your opinion on these. We had just as a group selected one that we thought might be good but at the same time we still want your opinion and whatever you want, thats what were going to go with.
Imam Sultan Muhammad: If you feel like adding anything to it brother Imam or changing it.
IWDM: No, I think its nice just like this. Tenth Anniversary Year, that says it. Like these, these would take from it. These images of people and gold and stuff would take from it.
Chair: .no, no. The Documentation in terms of the highlighting, the video.
ISM: We were hoping that well get back with brother Imam spoke of, my brother, he mentioned Alif would probably be the person and be good to make the videos around. He is hoping to sit down with you and get maybe, some ideas. We discussed it with the layout that you gave us at the last meeting where you mentioned the Masjid, Cultural Center, Collective Buying, etc.
IWDM: The video project?
ISM: Yes sir.
IWDM: You dont have to get with me. As long you put the main areas of activities and interest on video. Thats all you have to do. The Masjid, School, economic, collective buying program. As long as you put it all on there. Maybe then get some shots of Prison Dawah, Jumah. If you just list all the important involvements that we have and just make sure they are presented in the videothats all you have to do.
ISM: He had mentioned the possibility of interviewing you a short little scene.
IWDM: OH, yes. Thats ok. No problem.
Chair: The other thing was, of course, as we were pointing out brother Imam; we talked to you before about your going around. First of all, we pointed out you and Muhammad Ali. After we though about that today, we stated that we more so, just want you on this particular tour, if I might say. Basically, the concerns of this, your going around the regions, wed be paying for those expenses, etc. Would be of course to enhance the idea of progress in the American Muslim Mission also it will serve as a public relations effort to make the people aware of the upcoming program in Detroit.
Now, what we did was look at the six regions and of course the center locations where in fact, it would be easier for the believers to come to that particular center. Basically, just as we have worked it in the past: Washington, D.C.; New Orleans; New York; Los Angeles; Chicago and Atlanta. The way we wanted to schedule it of course based on weather conditions and looking at your schedule as to how you have been dealing with these particular areas also. We scheduled Chicago last and maybe a month before the program in Detroit so that we could do an extra effort in Chicago on Dawah. Bring Dawah Teams in from across the country for those people who can afford it, enhancing the consciousness of the people in Chicago that you are in this city and that they should recognize that fact and that that is a blessing. So, we wanted to bring Dawah teams here from across the country and just do a massive advertisement/public relations effort as far as Dawah is concerned in Chicago making that 4 weeks prior to the program in Detroit. The Grand Finale would be in Detroit itself. 
Now, what we did we just came with some tentative dates. I dont know how we could do that but if at all possible, could we possibly start confirming these dates so that in fact, we can start moving on these particular areas?
IWDM: Why, sure. How soon would you want to start?
Chair: The middle of January. The Twelfth or somewhere in there.
IWDM: I have a few appointments, maybe one or two in January and one or two in February but I think it should be opened mostly from January on
Chair: Will it be best for you to give us some dates instead of us running these dates to you?
IWDM: Maybe you should make sure, find out what dates Im already committed in the last two in January. You can call Edward Mustafa in fact, he might be here. He can give you that.
Chair: Just let Mustafa know what we would like?
IWDM: Just then, go on a plan the dates and let us have them as soon as possible so we can get that. Theres a conference on Seerah in Anaheim, California today and tomorrow. Dr. from Turkey and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia some of you know about him. Hes helped us out here with education documents at Rabita. Theyre addressing the conference along with some others, today and tomorrow in Anaheim. I thought Id let you know. I wanted to be there myself, but there is no way t can do it without messing up my commitments tomorrow in Atlanta.
Chair: On behalf of all the Imams we really respect your schedule. We realize that the kind of schedule that you keep is so we want to repeat that. Whatever we can do
IWDM: Alright, I like to be here for Jumahs and also Taleem. So, Saturday between 2 and 6 p.m. is best for me. Then you could have some other affair after 6 p.m. So, I can make my address whatever, then I can be free. If I want to come back, I can come back, if I dont want to stay for the rest of the program then I wouldnt have to stay. I could just come out and come on back home.
Chait: Praise be to Allah. Is there anything that you recommend brother Imam in terms of the Dawah effort? Everything is going to be leading up to that and then were just going to flood Chicago. We want to do this ourselves, but is there anything that you recommend in terms of people that you already know who are outstanding in the Chicago community, Masjid Honorable Elijah community that you would like to assist us just in terms of making us aware of Chicago and the areas that we should be hitting?
IWDM: The Editor. Its hard to find nobody better than the Editor. Wali Akbar. He is very familiar with Chicago and he actually has training in that particular area; communication and crowd control, etc. What kind of problem you would most likely have when you get a lot of people together in one spot in the city. He has helped me in fact, in a kind of a private relationship every since Ive been here. Ive been getting information from him, getting ideas as to what to expect in a situation when going into a town and some place.
Chair: Up to this point brother Imam, as far as the program is concerned, is summary too brief? Any questions that you might have, we would hope that you would ask those questions.
IWDM: The actual event itself, that will be given in Detroit. What facility have you decided on? What area is it located in? Is it in a strictly Bilalian are or accessible to everybody in the city? Is the place without a reputation? Because you know, you get a place in a Bilalian area and it has a reputation and then a lot of decent people wont come there.
Chair: Youve been there before, brother Imam. Cobo Hall. Its downtown. It has a lot of parking lots around there.
IWDM: Thats good. Yes, I know about the Cobo. In fact, we were there some years ago. Now, the actual program for that day. When you get it formulated, I would like to see the actual program. Who will be speaking? Who will be entertaining, etc.
If you just present the community, thats very impressive, if you show the number of Masjids that have been built from the ground. The prison program, get some outer community people. Some of the Imams that are doing a good job in assisting the whole community in cooperation with the outer community. Get some shots or videos of them sitting down or just talking about how they came together, what kind of relationship they are working for. Anything like that is very impressive.
I dont know how well theyre doing but I know some of the believers have little small pieces of land and theyre trying to get some opportunity in their immediate regions, areas for gardening and raising chickens, things like that. I dont know just how many we have. I have met a few and if its possible to get him to take a video down there and video some of that land that theyve gotten with animals on it, that helps a lot. We want to inspire the people. We want to present the true picture.
ISM: Go tight along with Collective Buying with that video.
IWDM: Yes. In fact, what you all have there, thats very good. You dont have to spend a lot of time on it. It wont take but a few minutes. You get a lot on a video! An hour or two hours or an hour and a half, one hour! You get a lot on that. You shoot this place three and five minutes, go and shoot the other places. You get a lot on the video.
ISM: Do you have any person in mind that youd like to be the narrator?
IWDM: No, I dont have anybody in mind to narrate the video. I am sure you can find somebody who would be very good to narrate it. Maybe it should be narrated by different, not just one. But by people from the area. Whoever is in the area most immediately, have him to narrate it. Like in Washington youre right there with everything youve been doing so you narrate it. Get the person most immediately involved with what has been done to narrate it so they can call people by their names. Mr. Fauntroy, Delegate Fauntroy or whatever. It would be easier because if you try to get somebody to narrate it then theyre going to have to put all of that together for the narrator. That makes it harder and then the narrator has to go all around and go on the spot himself. If you can just get somebody to handle the video they should go in those places and get it together.
Chair: Since Detroit is where it started and we have so many pioneers there, do you think it would be possible some of them could do a part of the documentary on how the Masjids began.
IWDM: Oh, yeah. That would be beautiful. That would be great. Get some of their comments on the change and just how they feel about them as pioneers who have been around for many years. That would be great. The only thing is that if you dont control the presentation you will end up cheating yourself. You will spend too much time on one thing. It should be just two minutes on each place. Each place will have something attractive to offer for the video.
Chair: Brother Imam we were talking about starting in the morning at Cobo like 10 oclock in the morning and go maybe to 5 p.m. on the progress report. And maybe from 7 p.m. at night have a big dinner with a band, nice music and then have speakers and then maybe present certain awards, whatever you want to do, maybe from 7/7:30 till maybe 10/11:00 at night and then Sunday will be
Just a big affair where you can teach the people.
IWDM: Well, I dont know. Entertainment is good, dinner is good. I dont think you should award anybody. (Someone interjects that no, were not talking about awarding nobody, we want people to present awards to you). No, no. Not even me. Nobody is to get any awards.
Chair: Brother Imam wasnt at the last meeting thats why he didnt have that information. Thats what we were talking about before. The other thing is, we had just discussed, not taking anything away from brother Imam Clyde Rahman, in pointing about the fact that you teaching as to both nights or remember we talked about that before? You teaching Saturday and then at Talim that Sunday.
IWDM: I wouldnt teach. I would present a progress report.
Chair: Yes, sir. Well, you would present us with progress reports Saturday and the Sunday you would do Talim.
IWDM: Right. I would present a report that I think you wont present. You dont have it or for some other reason you cant present it right.
Chair: So, Saturday and Sunday you would be in both portions. The how to of that were still working on some things. But you would be in agreement with
IWDM: Saturday is enough, I think. Saturday would be enough. I could stay over for Sunday to do Talim.
Chair: Yes, sir. Thats what we mean. Now, for the dinner, you would be in agreement with a dinner for Saturday?
IWDM: Yeah. And entertainment, thats good. I thought that time afterwards.
Question: Brother Imam when you said Talim do you mean Talim at the Cobo Hall or at the Masjid?
IWDM: No. I think we should do it at the Cobo Hall.
Question: Brother Imam how would you feel maybe about coming in and doing the Jumah and that night going on National Television? It comes out of Detroit.
IWDM: Now, any invitation, I wouldnt want to ask for any, Im not seeking it and I dont want you all to seek that but you should inform them. If you expect to have something big in the city like that you should inform them. Now, if they say we would like to have Imam come on, if they say on their own without being asked to, that they would like to have Imam come on, is it possible for the Imam to come in and if you let me know who it is, what station, radio or television, what else?
Chair: Again, brother Imam, unless theres any other questions that you have as far this portion?
IWDM: No, you dont have to tell me what the cost is going to be. Just try to work hard to conserve, thats all.
ISM: This is the layout of some of the things going into the brochure. Maybe have the logo here. I was going to ask if you have any questions or any input? Mainly with the Ten Year list of Accomplishments? I could never say I know all of the accomplishments you made.
IWDM: This is for the brochure, right?
ISM: Yes, sir.
IWDM: So, Ill tell you what. What you all should do is just list the accomplishments yourself and what Ill do is make slight, brief comments your list can go in detail, then Ill make brief comments on things that youve highlighted. What Ill be doing is just say, coming from me as Imam acknowledging these accomplishments and just acknowledge the person, for the support that hes gotten. That would be accomplishments. Instead of me presenting it, you all present it then what Ill do, Ill look at it. Just send me a copy of the things you highlighted and the way it flows. Then Ill make something flowing in the same way but from me it will be the Imam acknowledging these things and expressing his appreciation to the community for the support he got from our own community and the general community, made this kind of progress possible. It will be brief, one page or half a page.
Chair: The other thing we were discussing in relationship to this was all of the awards and plaques that you have at the National House.
IWDM: If you want to mention the Honorable Elijah Muhammads plaques and awards then thats o.k. but not mine. I wouldnt want you to.
Chair: We werent talking about mentioning it. The question came up and if you dont want it no problem with it.
IWDM:  this is a private community. We dont want to hear what Mayor Koch says about Imam Warith Deen Muhammad. They can get that later, some other meeting.
ISM: Brother Imam, when we list the accomplishments, what would be the first one, sensitive to the 
IWDM: The first one? Well, the practice of the religion, praying in the right way and everything else. (Someone adds: reforming from the old way to the new way). Yes sir. Instituting the practice of the religion because it wasnt instituted before. We just accepted an idea, a vague idea at that. (Someone adds: And thats really the progress right there.) Yes, thats number one.
Chair: Also, brother Imam we did point out before you didnt want us going with the transition material too much because its evident.
IWDM: No! Simply say, With the Imam come into leadership, the Imam immediately began to establish the practice of the religion and that says all of it.
Question: Would you be opposed to Jumah?
IWDM: No, I wouldnt be opposed to it. The only thing I was worried about was  from those programs. (Someone adds: So, can we say that maybe you will come in and do Jumah?) Sure, oh yes.
But the Jumah, dont advertise that for any but Detroit and the immediate area because you will have people trying to come out of long-distance places too soon.
Chair: We have about five or six things that we just want to ask you in general that were outside of the program itself. Is that o.k.?
IWDM: Yes, sir.
Chair: One was the prison services. You had brought that question up so whoever wanted to ask the question please go ahead, Imam Sultan?
ISM: About the prison services. At the last meeting you mentioned that prison services work along with the masjids, I was wondering can you make a statement or something because right now prison services they claim .
IWDM: The situations that we started off with shouldnt be taken as conditions that we are pleased or satisfied with it. We have some areas where you didnt have a qualified person or nobody that would accept the responsibilities to work with the prisons in the area and we accepted that prison Imams carry on the services and everything and didnt have to answer to anybody. Thats not right. A religious organization should be responsible for its propagation work, wherever its propagated. If its propagated in the prisons then a resident Imam should be the one to approve whoever is going to be working in that prison in his area or at least, that brother Imam should be respected enough by the persons who are preaching in the prisons who are not really established to preach the religion, they are convicts and prison administration to have the resident Imam or the qualified Imam in that area to recommend someone to represent the propagation in that prison. Either he does it himself or recommend someone direct it to the prison administration. Prison propagation should not be separated from community propagation. It should be a part of community propagation.
ISM: We have a situation in my region who is representing prison services is an AMMCOP person and they had voting goes on. I was wondering if AMMCOP should really be in that kind of position where they actually have representatives in prison services.
IWDM: No. Thats with you. AMMCOP shouldnt be in prison service propagation because its confusing, it just adds to the confusion.
ISM: This person claims that he wont be taking directives from the Imams nor from the AMMCOP person. Thats his last comments, but this clarifies all of that.
IWDM: You should take my directs statement to him. If they dont respect it you should take it to the administration and if the administration doesnt respect it then you should take it to the public. Thats right. Say, They respect other religions, Catholic, Protestant who are preaching their religion. They dont have these convicts and people who dont represent anything responsible for the religion inside prisons. They have qualified people responsible for the religion. We ask the same thing, we cant get any cooperation from the administration. But you, you will get cooperation.
ISM: Brother Imam, one question came up to me in a prison service meeting. I just want to be open with you. One of the brothers in Dawah asked, If AMMCOP is an economical program why isnt it possible that an Imam- it would seem like the business or economics should function with the masjid as well or under the leadership if an Imam is pushing it right? I didnt discuss this with anybody else. I want you to know Im asking the question because it came up in the meeting.
IWDM: Many business and economics, entertainment, business all of that kind of activity should be outside of the masjid. It should be supported by groups interested in it and like to promote that kind of thing. The Imam should just give his endorsement and encouragement. If hes really able to involve himself, if hes qualified to involve himself then he should find a way to win acceptance from them for his input. But they should carry that, masjids shouldnt carry it. (Someone expresses a situation in his community) Thats not right. The member was a member of the community, right? Well, they should have asked you if hes a member of your community, they should have asked you first.
Question: Allah blessed us in the State of Michigan to be on the board of clergy and not only that passing out the book, Religion on the Line, . To set up a new committee, a new group called. working directly with the Attorney Generals office and direct with the prisons. .. new policies for the Islamic
IWDM: Very good. I wish all of the brothers and people of our community who are trying to do Dawah would read that book, especially that part on prisons, the meeting that I had with the members of the administration and my own comments on the situation for muslims when they are incarcerated and what they have to recognize is just good sense.
Question: Brother Imam, getting back to AMMCOP. AMMCOP is saying that they can have Jumah outside of the masjid, they dont have to have it in the masjid. The members of AMMCOP say they can have their own Jumah, Talim service or whatever.
IWDM: Let me explain first to you where theyre coming from. Anybody can have a Jumah if they have enough people to do a Jumah. You dont have to come here to have a Jumah. We make certain allowances for people who are working. If they have enough people on that location during Jumah time if they have enough people on that location during Jumah time if they have somebody leading the prayers, good, you dont have to leave your location. That was the situation for what they are telling you now. Now, if they stretch it too far then youll know. If they are working hard, a business or something and the reason why they are not attending the Jumah at the masjid is because they are working on that location and want to get back to that work real quick, business work  not propagation, dawah. Business work, AMMCOP work, thats different. But if they just want to have a separate place to have religious service then they are dividing the community and they should be told that. Say, Your purpose is just to divide the community. Your purpose is to establish your own thing separate from the community.
Question: Anyone that works with AMMCOP they cant work with the administration in the masjid. They cant do anything in the masjid thats working with the masjid if theyre going to be a part of it.
IWDM: Well, thats not directive from me. Thats something that they are insisting upon.
ISM: I bear witness to that. I tried to sit in a meeting once they said I couldnt go in the meeting for no reason.
IWDM: Thats not what we want. We want everybody to work together and not divide themselves. Thats dividing the community.
Question: Some AMMCOP chapters are appointing Imams (?)
IWDM: Oh, yes. I know they are doing that but Im letting you know that thats not the situation that I want. Thats the situation that they are insisting upon.
ISM: Thats a weakness on the part of accepting it then.
IWDM: You all have to deal with your own situation. I dont know the situation. If I saw the whole situation I might say, AMMCOP ought to take over the masjid because they are better people representing the religion. I dont know so you all, the one thats in the right, you should stand up for right.
Question: Brother Imam if I may, if I want to get a message to you, where is the best place? You were scheduled to be in Youngstown this past week. They were on television saying that you were going to be in Youngstown and you were going to announce that you were going to run for president in 1988. They had speakers calling everywhere saying, Mr. Muhammad is coming and he is going to run for president. I dont think thats fair for people to try to draw people to a meeting like this and tell them those kinds of things, that you are going to come there just to announce that you are going to run for president.
IWDM: They told a lie. I wasnt coming there to announce that.
Question: But they were on all the local television saying that.
IWDM: I was coming there to teach the Quran.
Question: Would you want to be warned about these situations?
IWDM: If I had gotten there, they would have been embarrassed.
ISM: One suggestion that was also made since were talking about AMMCOP today, I thought would be a good idea. Maybe have an event inviting you where we will say AMMCOP and the Masjid sponsoring you.
IWDM: You have some people in AMMCOP who want peace. If that ever happened that would be good. That would be a starting point for some sensible doings in this community. I think Ive explained this to most of you. AMMCOP really got off track from almost day one. Actually, it was supposed to be nothing but just a concept for rallying support for a big annual purchase that would eventually assist small business men who want to make a little investment and get themselves established so to promote small business person and also serve as a way of greatly reducing the cost to the consumer who is a member of the collective buying program. That was the idea, thats it! Aint nothing else.
Imam Clyde Rahman: . There was a lady who came in with the Deputy Mayor of Akron to give you a proclamation, they ran her away too. Talked to her like a dog! Then the lady came over there after she parked way down there somewhere, came back in, sit her back in the back and then the lady finally said, I got to go. I cant wait they kept saying that you were in the hall, you werent there. Kept saying that you were in the city, you didnt. They brought the lady up there and she told them who she was and said, Well, you just take this and give it to Mr. Muhammad when he comes and she left. Now, this makes us look bad, Im serious! I think that we as Imams have to make a stand if we know what is right and what is wrong. Thats what I think. I dont think should bring all of this stuff to you.
ISM: I dont know now. I dont want to fall into Alims bag.
Chair: The other thing brother Imam, it seems to be a problem around the different regions. I know a coupe cases came to my office and that is where we have a situation where an individual Muslim in the community gets mad with an Imam, with the decision that hes made or decisions that hes had to make. He still has the overwhelming support in that community and that particular individual says, Well, Im going to make my own masjid and starts trying to undermine the community or get converts or will influence that kind of thing. How should we, especially on the regional level, deal with that?
IWDM: We should address the criteria. Theres a criteria for establishing a masjid. Are the circumstances there for setting up a masjid? Most likely its not a community effort, most likely its an individual or a few individuals. Are the circumstances there for setting up a masjid going on the criteria that the Imam has established himself for this community? That the representatives be of the best people, that they be qualified in the religion, that they be people of principle, people of faith and that their motive be right, etc. What is the motive to it? If you find that those persons represent a possible, potential disgrace for this community then it is your duty to campaign harder than theyre campaigning to prevent them from doing it. Theyre campaigning to get support, you should campaign harder than theyre campaigning to make sure they get no support. If theyre really such people, they cant succeed. Only thing we have to do is just put the facts out.
Chair: Thank you very much. The other thing was that we want to make the community more aware of our presence as regional representatives. What we wanted to do if it is at all possible, was put the regional representatives in our paper, the AM Journal and the region that theyre in for people wanting questions answered, people might have some kind of questions as to how to about things, especially things that were learning from you now. Because for us this is an educational period that were so appreciative of. Is it alright that we do something like this or would that be misunderstood in the wrong way?
IWDM: No, but you should let me get a look at it before making it available to the community.
Chair: Yes sir. I guess basically all that we were talking about was like the regional representatives name and an address and something to the effect that questions that one might have thats I guess on that level, wed put it in better wording than this but something thats on something that we could actually look at.
IWDM: You mean something thats just making it known to them? This regional Imam is here and this is his name and if you want to contact him for information, sure, thats the masjid, thats its service.
Chair: Wed just be making known information thats already available maybe that they couldnt put their hands on or whatever the case mat be, they werent aware of because they missed a meeting at the local masajid or something like that.
IWDM: The information that the resident Imam or masjid has to offer and the services that they offer, I think it should be published.
(Someone asks a question in reference to SCMS students being forced to pray) They shouldnt be forced to pray many of them, until they show maturity like some say seven/twelve years old. They should be encouraged but not punished. (Someone else asks a question in reference to a letter he had written concerning ___________________________.
IWDM: Do the best you can, you know. And consult other authors outside the community who are recognized in their field. Other books on religion, you want something to show the practical side of religion devotion. Is that right?
Chair: Well no, we have the steps in ______________________.
IWDM: I think its better to deal with this for the direct benefits because what I would suggest is symbolism. Something that has likeness to metaphysics. And you see that is a bit too heavy for the children. It is okay to give it out in the community because that those that see it- attracted to it will catch it. Those that are not they will just pass them by and most likely it will not harm them and the nuts will go crazy.
But the practical benefits, cleanliness, number 1. Discipline and cleanliness. Thats what we are talking about.
Chair: Question_______________________.
IWDM: I dont know. Do we have a tape of that, do you know? You dont know. The Khutbah, today. Yes sir. They know that they are suppose to get it for the National Broadcast. So, what I will do is ask them if they can make it available. If you just write your name and leave it here before you leave. Those that want it just write your name on one piece of paper.
Chair: While we are on this idea of prayer. You had told us some things in the Northeast region, again when we hear you, we should hear instructions, we should hear guidance_________.
Also, as Imams we should hear how to direct our community.
Also, this should represent the model community, you know when I come here, I am looking for instruction.
IWDM: I hope we do that, we want to do that. But we have had a problem in Chicago, a big problem. I know my father used to say talking about America, you know, he said the Bible said the_________ became a haven for every foul bird. And every time I look at the community, I say it is a haven for every foul bird.
Chair: We know you are working with a monster, Brother Imam.
IWDM: And the problem is the birds were attracted here for some reason, I dont know why. I know I didnt call them.
Chair: Discussion_______ (couldnt understand it).
IWDM: You see that is Fareed I. Muhammad. He needs that. Its Fareed I. Muhammad. ( Laughter). Hes kind of silly minded too. You cant take him too seriously. His wife keeps him spinning and everything else keeps him spinning.
Chair: What I was going to say, Brother Imam, like for instance little simple things
IWDM: He goes off sometimes. You are liable to get anything from that man in the mail. And then at other times he will be talking just as straight and sensible.
Chair: Yeah well, I was just talking about two simple things. For Instance, say for iqamah, because again what we are doing, what you are implementing here in the model community we want to implement in the regions. Like say for iqamah. Okay we know that some say we cut the iqamah in half of the adhan.
IWDM: They do it but I dont think we should.
Chair: We should do Ash hadu anla ilaha illa lah. Twice and the Anna Muhammadar rasulullah, twice. Should be cut everything else in half.
IWDM: I think it should be exactly like the adhan.
Chair: Exactly like the adhan.
IWDM Exactly like the adhan. But given quick, brief. Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar. Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar. Ashhadu anla illaha illallah, Ashhadu anla illaha illallah. Ashhadu anna Muhammadar rasulullah, Ashhadu anna Muhammadar rasulullah. Hayya alas salat, Hayya alas salat. Hayya alal falah, hayya alal falah. Qad qama tis salat, Qad qama tis salat. Allahu akbar, Allahu akbar. La ilaha illallah.
Chair: Yes sir. Thats how we do it. Thats right and we want to unify that. And the other thing of course was .
IWDM: Though I had earlier accepted cutting it short, and I can see the reason in it. But I think it is better to give it in full.
Chair: Yes sir. The other thing is of course, Brother Imam, was the Imam. He says allahu akbar. And then the Believers respond. Allahu akbar. And then of course Sami Allahu liman hamidah and the Believers response, Rabbana lakal hamd. Now in some areas they say, I have seen it a couple different ways, Allahu akbar, when the Imam first says Allahu akbar leading the salat then thereafter everything is quiet. The congregation. Just the Imam is saying Allahu akbar. And then in other areas they say, like to day for instance, all the believers were saying Allahu akbar after the Imam.
IWDM: It is not necessary for the believers to say Allahu akbar, or give any signal, audible, unless the Imams voice, its such a big crowd, the Imams voice cant carry out. And then certain persons will understand that they are to pick it up. And carry the voice over a period of time. But actually, again like I say what we start off with shouldnt be taken as the thing, the ideal situation we want. When we first start off, I want everybody to say Allahu akbar. ________________ (couldnt understand)
Chair: So, our position should be that they should be quiet. Yes sir. (_______ some discussion I could not understand)
IWDM: They should be quiet. Say it quiet. Say it together, say it quiet. It is nothing wrong with saying Al-Fatiha together (audible) Aint nothing wrong with that. Or either during dhikrs. In congregation audible. I mean out loud. Theres nothing wrong with that at all. But thats not required for prayer. That should be like a special session or special study session of something like that. You know. For special purposes. But just ordinary prayer, no just make a little short Duah and everybody making Al-Fatiha to themselves in their own heart.
Chair: Question_________
IWDM: Adhan early to alert them. That it is time for Jumah. And then the Adhan too for the Imam.
Chair: Arent there 3 Adhans I think given also here, or 2 Adhans for Dhuhr Prayer, one to alert them and one to____________ time. 
IWDM: Yes, sometimes we actually give 3 for Jumah. Because ordinarily you give two for the prayer. One so that those that those that have to wash up will be given alert, will be alerted. And then the second one at the time of prayer, just before the prayer. Following the __________.
Chair: When they are making their rakaats. Prior  when the first Adhan is made or there after the second.
IWDM: Theyre making their sunnah right after the first Adhan. So, that by time the second Adhan is made everybody is ready for the congregation prayer.
Chair: Just to be clear, in other words the first one is made earlier then the second one is made.
IWDM: _______ is made immediately at the time. The first, the first. Say if at the time that Dhuhr starts here at 11:30. Then the Adhan should be made at 11:30. The first Adhan. And then those who are ready should start making their sunnah prayers. Those who are not ready should hurry up and get ablution. Do what they got to do. So, when the second Adhan is made they will begin.
Chair: Brother Imam, how much time should there be between the first and the second one. About ten/fifteen minutes?
IWDM: I say yes sir. For us I think ten to fifteen minutes. No pardon me, I am sorry, that first Adhan is said before the time of prayer. It is said 10 to 20 minutes as much. Before the time of prayer.
Chair: The second one should be made at the time of prayer?
IWDM: The second one should be made at the time of prayer. Then you make the sunnahs.
Chair: So, thats when you are doing 3. I just want to be clear on that. In other words, the third one would be when the Imam comes and gives the greetings.
IWDM: You mean on Jumah?
Chair: I am talking about Jumah. The third one would be when the Imam gives the greetings and then of course at that time, the Mueddhin would stand up and make Adhan. But normally it would just be the two.
IWDM: And the community is where you know you dont have people _____ around in different quarters or in another building or something like that, you know. I dont think you will need that _________.
Chair: Because the sunnah is of course the one. Then we will find the second one coming in later on after the Prophet because of that distance problem. I mean .
IWDM: Yes, there is only one Adhan required. But it should be made very early. The Adhan is made early. Sometimes we make Adhans as much as 40 minutes before the actual time of prayer. It gives people plenty of time to prepare and come to prayer. So, one Adhan is enough if they hear you.
ISM: The question asked to me that I think would benefit all of us, In Quran, one brother came to me and asked, why is the Quran have the punishment stricter for the man when he commits adultery than the women. I think that is Surah 4_________.
IWDM: I didnt see that. That havent registered on me. I thought it was the same. I thought it says flog them both with so many stripes. I havent seen where it gives more for the man than for the woman. I havent seen it. Yes, two women or two men guilty of lewdness confine the woman to the house. No, if either repent. If the person guilty repents then you should recognize their repentance. That means that you are free then to change the punishment or to stop the punishment. But I dont know of any difference in treatments. Only for people newly converted to the religion from the pagans, thats the only allowance I know. They are to receive less punishment for offences because they are not educated, not informed. But people that come up as Muslims or have been informed and they understand like everybody else what the religion is, they are knowledgeable in the religion, when they commit those offences, I thought the punishment is the same for all of them. Now, it might be there but I havent seen it, I havent recognized that difference for male and female. I hope you all wont stand anybody up and flog them eighty lashes. This isnt an Islamic state.
Question: I did have a question but weve been here for quite some time today already.
IWDM: I appreciate that because we do have a lot to do today.
Chair: Once we set you up for your scheduling in the region then at that point is when well meet with you to let you know the progress of the program instead of coming here because were going to be coming in the regions anyway and then that way we can just meet briefly when you come to that particular region. 
IWDM: That would be very good. 










