05/28/1986
IWDM Study Library
Muslim Journal Interview 
Chicago IL

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed

Interviewer: First I'd like you to provide some background and the first question is, when you assumed the leadership of what was then called the Nation of Islam, it was saddled with heavy debt tax problems, unprofitable businesses, but it had a public image of being very solid and you immediately tackled these problems. What I need to know is why was this necessary so early on to deal with these types of problems.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Mainly, it was due to the fact that we didn't expect huge sums of money to be coming in anymore, with the new leadership and softer policies regarding obligations of the members of the community. The huge sums that were coming in from organized Muhammad Speaks sales, and from organized national fish programs and quotas for newspaper and set amounts for contributions. Even the school, was on the donation slip, and there was a set amount. Each temple had to give a definite amount for the school. All that changed and we were depending on people to just support us in the spirit of Muslim charity, the spirit of charity.
I knew that we would have to do without a lot of things and we prepared the national staff to live on a much less material level of confort. We also had to prepare the temples too, for the same thing, to be ready to support themselves locally, not to expect contributions from a national effort.
Interviewer: Money was going out from Chicago to other places?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes. First of all, money would come into Chicago from all places; big and small and from the main regions, good sums was coming in. When I say good amounts, say monthly Los Angeles could bring in $30,000-$70,000 and New York was bringing in a similar amount. Midwest was producing a similar amount and other areas were bringing less, but a considerable amount of money was coming in monthly. During the probate case, before the closing of the case, it was mentioned that through that account, what I call the National Fund that was at First Pacific Bank under the time of Elijah Muhammad's (unclear), during that time they calculated that about 80,000 probably 90,000-- It was-
Interviewer: [unintelligible 00:04:23]
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, $12 million or more came in during a certain period of time. Yes, millions, right. I'm not aware of how that money came in unless it came in from special drives, and monies from the fish program and others, but they didn't give any explanation where that money came from. That leaves me to wonder that perhaps some money was coming from some other sources that we're not even aware of.
Interviewer: You don't mean from illegal source--
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, I'm not saying illegal sources, but that's possible too. That some activity was going on and we weren't aware of it, most likely Elijah Muhammad was perhaps unaware of it. Maybe it was coming in as charity, just gifts from individuals and they didn't want their names to be given-
Interviewer: There's a lot of people doing that.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, they do, that's right. It's possible that that happened because I couldn't with my knowledge of the contributions and how it came in during that time, although I wasn't the national secretary, on top of things like that. But from my experience, what I would expect would be coming in, that seemed like a bit over what would be expected to come in through just regular charities and fund raising.
Interviewer: I think they counted have about 44,000 slips and receipts in total.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I believe so, and I was told that some racists even sent contributions to the Nation of Islam because it represented a separation of the races.
Interviewer: Oh, yes?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, that's what I was told. I was sure that name wouldn't be in the record either [laughs]
Interviewer: That's quite interesting.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's right.
Interviewer: Was there much opposition to your efforts to assess the realistic financial picture of the community, in your opinion?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes. The financial picture that I received from Raymond Sharief, John Ali, national secretary at that time. He was just going out of the picture at that time. When I was released from prison, he was still there Abass Rasul, Elijah Muhammad Jr., Elijah Muhammad II was that the nation was broke. That's their exact words to me, "The Nation is broke." I was told that the Nation had over extended itself. Buying farmlands and other things, it had over extened itself and really money was being used up as fast as it could come in. Money was coming in- what I consider to be substantial amounts
Interviewer: I know the image we had was that things were solid.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I was told just the opposite that the nation was broke. That's what I was told and that they were happy to see me back out and hope that I will be able to use my influence to get the Hon. Elijah Muhammad to see that things were critical. When I met him and heard his conversation, his conversation was different.
Interviewer: Why do you think they were trying to paint that picture then?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I believe they were fearing that too much was being invested in non-profit, non-income properties and non-income holdings like the farm. It never was an income piece of property. The farm, thousands of acres of farm-
Interviewer: Were, they intended for that purpose?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: They were intended to serve the community. I wouldn't say to be a profit-making concern, but they were intended to at least not be a financial burden on the community. They were intended to be of help to the community by bringing food to the Muslim centers, for sale and employment for Muslims.
Interviewer: It never really met that--
Imam W.D. Mohammed: They didn't realize it. It was never realized. My picture of the financial situation of the Nation of Islam was a very weak one, it was not encouraging at all.
Interviewer: Was it frightening to you?.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, really the only thing that frightened me was the threat to the spirit of faith in the membership and the morals. That's the only thing that bothered me, because I was converted to faith and morality and I believed that as long as those two survive, then we could manage whatever else would happen.
Interviewer: It seemed like that, but [unintelligible 00:09:41] proved correct (unclear). A few years before you became the leader the Hon. Elijah Muhammad received this interest-free loan from Libya.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes.
Interviewer: How much was that?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I understood it to be three million.
Interviewer: That was in 1971?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I believe so. 
Interviewer: When you assumed the leadership, has that been paid off?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No it hasn't. 
Interviewer: We were talking about the loan, it wasn't paid up.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, it was not paid off. I forget how much is still due but maybe about two-thirds of it. That's my recollection. We owe more than a million dollars that's my recollection. Those payments I believe are $200,000, twice a year.
Interviewer: Pretty cheap.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Especially for my administration, we weren't receiving hardly, - in fact the tide of contributions started to subside right after I became leader. The year after I became the leader, maybe six months to a year after I became the leader, the national contributions went down to about $130,000, $140,000 coming from everywhere in one year.
Interviewer: That's a drastic drop.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: You know what the attorney told me, the attorney that was working for us on tax matters and other things and vendors in paying off debt; they told me, they said " Look, I know you differ with your father, but his ain't going to work. You got to get these people and get some money in here."
[laughter].
Interviewer: But they did know you better than that?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: They all had to leave because we couldn't keep paying them.
Interviewer: Did we eventually pay that or you got it renegotiated?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: We managed to pay off our debt, tax obligation, the creditors, paid them off. We managed to pay all of them off. The attorneys were able to go to court and get the obligations reduced considerably for many of our creditors. Also we were able to pay back much of the national bank, the Nation's Bank where Muslims were saving [crosstalk] Yes. [unintelligible 00:12:43] The savings of the Muslims before it even went to Guaranteed Bank. Immediately when I came into office we transferred to Guarantee Bank, but we still had the-
Interviewer: There were accounts in other places.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, no. It was all done by the national office. When I came in we transferred them to the bank to Guarantee Bank, but we had the record of the investors in that national bank. We began paying them off with whatever money we had available. We were able to give most of them their money back. A few of them waited for several years like four, five, six, seven years after we the announcement was public. They waited that long to ask for their money and we didn't have it anymore. We still we told them we accepted our obligation. We tried hard to try to meet that obligation. I know many of them who came in during the last years of my tenure of leadership, they weren't able to get their money.
Interviewer: How was the Libyan loan situation resolved?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Personally, I felt that this is a Muslim country and not a very poor Muslim country [laughs]. I thought if I went there and explained to them that we were having serious financial problems with the new leadership change, policy change. I thought that they perhaps would consider excusing us from the debt, because in our religion, in the Quran it says that it is better to excuse the one who's burdened, taxed with the debt. If you can't excuse him, you're at least supposed to be considered. If it's given in charity to relieve that person, that burdened person, then that's even better. I expected them to be Muslims of that type, and they were.
Interviewer: They were.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes. I presented our situation to them. Didn't take them nothing but a few minutes to consider it. The one who spoke to me he went back into the office, and he came back out. He said, "Don't worry about it." He said, "Pay it whenever you can get it. Don't worry about it."
Interviewer: Not many people know that you did that.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, they don't. That's right. We returned with a great burden off us. That was $200,000 that was expected right then, that we didn't have to give them.
Interviewer: Now that debt is forgiven.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It's forgotten. They have excused us from that obligation.
Interviewer: It's a blessing.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, it is. It's a great blessing. People look at Libya and they only see what's coming out in this political confusion and difficulty for our nation and the Libyans. They don't know that Libya gives a lot of charity.
Interviewer: Listed to the billions.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Lot of charity to poor communities of the world, of Africa and other places too. Also it's not known that they print a lot of genuine, very genuine, wholesome religious literature.
Interviewer: It is distributed.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Socialist program there but it is a G-d-fearing nation. They support charity to Islamic religious organizations and dissemination of pure and excellent religious material to different parts of the world by the Islamic Call Society. Some of that literature has come to us free. Excellent religious material; very clean, very genuine, true to the Quran and the Quranic spirit and to the Sunnah of the Prophet. I would say it could be called moderate religious material because you can take things out of context. You can even take the best Quranic material and you take it out of context and it can be trouble-making material. I don't see any trouble-making material coming out of the Islamic Call Society. It's the best selections. It shows that those people that are there, they are very educated and very good Muslims. They are very keen to know what is best for the current situations in different parts of the world.
Interviewer: The Call Society cannot be separated from the overall Libyan context?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, it can't, it can't because the Libyan government supports it. It's based in Libya and the Libyan government supports it. In fact there is no separation of religion and state over there.
Interviewer: The way it should be.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It should be. For a Muslim it has to be that way. For a Muslim nation it has to be that way.
Interviewer: All this seems to be obfuscated by the political-
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's right, the Palestinians, in my opinion, I've met many Palestinians and I've known them for some time. In fact, my first Arabic teacher was a Palestinian old man named Ibrahim. They're some of the most compassionate people that I've met. They're warm, compassionate people. What's going on now you would think that they were violent and vicious people with what we're hearing with some of the Palestinian liberation fighters are doing.
It's very important for Muslims at least that we understand that extreme difficulty in the life of people, especially when they feel it's terribly unjust, can create a situation where the image projected in that land and that people can kill the true image of the whole people, the whole nation. That's what's happening in Palestine. That's what's happening in Libya.
Interviewer: Are they connected, the Palestinian and the Libyans?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: They're connected in this new image that has become a burden on Muslim nations. The charge of terrorism.
Interviewer: Do you thinks it's deliberate to paint the Muslim nations as terrorists?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I know some of it is deliberate because all the vile crusaders are not dead. They still would like to see Islam off the planet Earth or at least checked and under the control of the western powers.
Interviewer: As a matter of fact, there's one scholar within Europe the last few weeks. Try to encourage them to what he called the new crusade.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, so that's spirit continues there, because there's always some radicals among the Christians who love to drink wine and get in the spirit of violence, . I'm sure we have some among Muslims too, but I think we have the fewer number [laughs].
Interviewer: Over the years, thousands of dollars have been donated to you personally, but you turn around and you give it to the schools, why you do that?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes. When I first became the leader because the community had been kind of conditioned to donate great sums. They continued it for me, so I would in turn give it to the schools because education needed it. Schools always needed a lot of help that we didn't get. I saw a way that we could help the schools without taxing so much the believers, local believers who had their children in the schools.
Moneys were coming in and one time I remember, a sum of money came in and I was able to take care of certain needs in the masjid here for the masjid properties around here, and still had enough from that amount that I received in my name to give the school $25,000 to bring up the science department and the lab.
Interviewer: How many people would've done that when they had all that money to [unintelligible 00:22:00] for their own personal use?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I don't know how many people from [crosstalk] a certain society.
Interviewer: It's difficult committing people to do that.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: From the right society that's what is expected from a person who sits in a position of trust, who has a position of trust for the community. I consider myself in a position of trust and whatever people gave me, I was only to use no more than enough to give me a modest living.
Interviewer: Under your leadership, thousands of dollars scholarships have been awarded to--
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, we've given people, awarded scholarships, . We've helped people get through law school. We've helped-
Interviewer: You have?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: -yes we've helped a couple get through law school. We've helped sisters and brothers get their degree.
Interviewer: I know there seemed to be a proliferation of degrees that [unintelligible 00:22:59] when you assumed the leadership.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I believe so. The community under the Hon. Elijah Muhammad was turned on to education. Many of them who I don't believe would have had the courage to go to college and complete degree and especially a doctorate degree, were able to do that. Not many, several people were able to do that under the Hon. Elijah Muhammad's leadership. It was because of his great emphasis on knowledge.
When I came into the leadership, I began to address the role of language in developing the human intellect in the society. Pointing to the mind and the picture I had while I was pointing to the mind of man. And I think that, - in fact, I knew it did because many letters came to me saying that, "Because of you I've gotten a renewed interest in education. I've gone back to school." Several of them-- in fact many of them have written me and told me that they completed their school years. Some of them got their masters degrees and doctor degrees, and received many letters from those who got their bachelor's of science degree, bachelor's of arts degree.
Interviewer: The [unintelligible 00:24:14] promise still happens?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It happens, it's continuing now [crosstalk] I just received a couple of letters last week; invitation to come to the college graduation one who decided to go back to school.
Interviewer: If would be wonderful if they would help somebody else [inaudible 00:24:28].
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I hope they will. That's what they should do. Yes. They should in turn help somebody. No not all of these that are writing me now, they didn't receive financial help now.
Interviewer: This is an initiative.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, I'm speaking now of the inspiration that they received. Not financial help, but we did give considerable financial help to those who, in my opinion, after consulting with others too, qualify for that help, for that financial help.
Interviewer: Then the inspiration, The combination there was a great benefit?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Oh yes, oh yes, that's right. Most of our charity, most of the money that we receive that's charity.
Interviewer: Charity is defined as more than just money?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, right. We have people who volunteer, they work in the school and they don't charge for that work. We have people who have been doing it all along. They come here, they help us keep the property up and they don't charge. We can use more of that volunteer help. They cut down expenses quite a bit because (unclear).
That's zakat, that's charity. Any assistance we get from people for the operation we have and for propagation etc. where they don't require money in return for it. It's charity, and when they work for underpay, it's charity.
Interviewer: That's charity.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, and most of our staff works for underpay.
Interviewer: Does that negate them from having to pay money also?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, we don't pressure them to pay money because they're giving us. Those who are doing that are giving us.
Interviewer: If they gave the money with that be because of the charity too?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, certainly yes, yes. Most of our charity comes from the charitable believers who donate.
Interviewer: How significant is the charity / zakat in the Muslim life?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It's very significant, extremely significant.
Interviewer: I know it is number three.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, it's very significant for our community if we were living in a Muslim nation that was self-supported; I'm sure our members wouldn't have to pay tuition to have their children enrolled in our school. They wouldn't have to pay for just the common kind of basic services that we offer. They wouldn't have to pay for that.
Interviewer: Most Muslim schools is free then?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Certainly education is free, and not only that, if a poor person is found to not have decent food, they'll find-- just like here you have food program for the hungry. Well, they would give them food. In Saudi Arabia, they give tons of food to poor people. It's because not only the richness of Saudi Arabia. So much food come there during the Hajj time, people sacrifice animals; sheep and cows and goats and so they have huge tons of meat. I think they found a way now to refrigerate a lot of that meat for weeks or months immediately after Haj, there's a lot of food given away to the poor.
I understand that the king over there, he opens up the king facility. The facilities of the king are opened up to the poor to come and eat. I think they eat on a regular basis; the poor come and eat whatever they like and they serve the same food the king eats. [crosstalk].That's unique. It might happen somewhere else, but I think it's very unique that the king has done that, this is the late king.
Interviewer: [unintelligible 00:28:44].
Imam W.D. Mohammed: He has a time where any poor person can come right and eat the same food that the royalty will eats, in the same kind of situation the same facility.
Interviewer: It amaze me well, to me see Colonial Gaddafi sit and eat with the people.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: For us we say, "Hey, that man, but he must not care about his life at all.
Interviewer: [crosstalk] same man.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: [laughs] Yes, obviously something's happening in Islamic society in Libya and Iran that the West is not aware of and it's the gratitude of those people. Castro many thought-
Interviewer: Never had to stay like that before?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes. Many thought Castro would have been dead a long time ago. They would have thought that if not an outside assassin inside an inside assassin would've been taken him away.
Interviewer: That's right.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: He loved his people, he suffered with his people. He shared the burden and suffering of his people. He was his people. He was a suffering people. They would do anything to keep him alive.
Interviewer: I saw some articles in the tribunal last week and it had the same assessment that they have a genuine love for him.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Certainly. They see him as themselves. In fact, Gaddafi is. He is poor. He's one of poor and suffering people. Although his situation was that he was in the army, a colonial in an army and everything, but his family life and his experience had put great suffering in his life.
Interviewer: Why is it that certain leaders can assume this type of aura and other can't?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It's because they have lived with their people and they have become one in the suffering spirit of their people.
Interviewer: It seems like those are the ones that western powers especially try to kill or overthrow.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, because they are dangerous. They're dangerous to Western interest in the--
Interviewer: Economic [unintelligible 00:31:09]
Imam W.D. Mohammed: To western foreign interest.
Interviewer: Foreign interest.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: To western foreign interest. They are dangerous to western foreign interest because of the ideological contrast. The ideology of Libya contrast is that the fundamental ideology of capitalism of free enterprise and capitalism society. Not so much free enterprise, but capitalism per se. It contrast with them so sharply that in terms of ideology, I think a conservative patriotic American would think that that's as much as dangerous or maybe more dangerous that's coming out of Libya, then what they have in the Russia in Moscow. It's simply because in Russia there is no G-d but in Libya, there is a G-d. There is Allah, they believe in the same G-d. When you see that the world believes in one G-d. When you have that kind of combination, a very strong socialist program and then sanctioning that program is G-d, the belief that G-d smiled upon him and that's something very strong.
Interviewer: I saw a statement this morning [unintelligible 00:32:43] is in the Soviet Union and it was saying that, - they paper was saying that the Russians don't want to sign a friendship pack with Libyan government because they can't trust Colonel Gaddafi, because one time he got up speech and told them they should get out of Afghanistan, they stop oppressing people around the world.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: As long as Colonel Gaddafi is representing also, - he's a Muslim. He represents the Muslim of Libya. In fact, he represents as he has established himself, the oppressed Muslim of the world.
Interviewer: But he doesn't come across like that in the West.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I know he doesn't, but that's his position. That's his stated position. As long as he takes that position for Islam then I think we're going to have that difficulty with the West. Because as I said, you have a combination now, you got a material program and a powerful religious protection over it. If there is not agreement and a workable kind of relationship for the state department or for foreign relations department in Libya, I'm sure that it's going to always be that great difficulty for any kind of peaceful relationship.
Interviewer: The week before the attack on Libyan president Reagan his last public statement on television, accused him of wanting to unite the entire Muslim world. He said that before he made the mad dog statement.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes. I don't think he has that kind of aspiration. From what I learned of him and heard of him, I don't think he has that kind of aspiration, but if the opportunity was presented, I believe he would be happy to move right into it. I don't think that's his aspiration.
I think Colonel Gaddafi is a man that realizes he's a small nation, but he realizes also that the position that he and his nation has taken, is very bold and very extremely courageous. Yes, exceeding, extraordinary position, and a bold and courageous position. I think he realizes that taking such a position really puts them in danger of being undermined by adverse nations adverse philosophies or nations that adhere to adverse philosophy, diverse policies that clash with his nation and his policies and that he has to survive.
I think that what we see in Colonel Gaddafi and extremist in the Palestinian movement, maybe the whole Palestinian movement is a desperation for survival.
Interviewer: It appears that way because now it seems like, especially Israel is even more determined not to grant the Palestinians one inch of anything.
Interviewer: That only heightens that desperation. Knowing the history of the conflict there in the Middle East, the Palestinians, the genuine Palestinian Arabists, and the Israeli that came in and occupied the land. Knowing America's involvement and the west involvement, I cannot help but sympathize with the Palestinians and with the Libyans. While I have differences as you know, with the posture of Colonel Gaddafi, I can't help but admire him. I can't help but admire the man because I'm aware of his history. I think if any--
Interviewer: We have to put things in historical context.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Certainly. If any American, if any sober-minded American, freedom-loving America could see-- I say sober-minded and freedom loving, - American could see the whole life of Colonel Gaddafi and what he had been able to achieve in terms of social equality in his country for his people and how he has helped that in many other ways-- I think if they could see the whole picture, I'm sure they will still perhaps be aggravated, even angered maybe by some developments in his life. I'm sure if they could see the whole life of Colonel Gaddafi, they would have to say that's the man to be admired.
Interviewer: There are two things that they have never excuse him of, and one is wasting the countries resources and [crosstalk].
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, he doesn't waste his country's resources. He puts his country's resources to the proper use. That is to the benefit of the whole people of his country.
Interviewer: I'm not going to take just five more minutes of your time.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I started to say before we got into that, that charities that come into us we can locate the point of a receipt and disbursement as the bank, Community Bank of Lawndale. We still have better than $7,000 at First National Bank in Chicago. First Bank of Chicago it is called now.
Interviewer: First Bank of Chicago.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, downtown. We had our largest amount of charities were at that bank until they were used up for the community. We started out with about a million, about $500,000, and it went to $700,000, and it went on up to about $3 million dollars. At one time we had close to about $3 million dollars.
Interviewer: Our you talking about from the time you came in?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: This is under my leadership. We had about that much money downtown. That money was used to relieve the financial difficulties for the whole community , not just Chicago, but the whole community. It has helped to buy mosques, to buy the places for the Muslims to have worship in. It has helped schools, the national schools around the county. It has helped with many individuals. It has paid many, many debts for our community. It has helped to create jobs. In California we gave about $20,000 to create a job programs. They're selling encyclopedias, African-American encyclopedias. They put out a very good encyclopedic, I can't recall the name.
Interviewer: Is it the one cost about a hundred dollars?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, I think so.
Interviewer: We got a call this morning, the lady wants to read, she put out an advertising for it and got overwhelming response from it.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It was over your paper, our paper, you all helped us publish, and helped us to advertise. It gave jobs particularly to youngsters who needed jobs and maybe some of them change their mind about the streets, about what they thought their role should be in the street, because of that program. We gave assistance to other areas too.
Interviewer: To non-Muslim area?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, we gave assistance certainly. Assistance has also to non-Muslims but a very small amount. Most of it has gone to Muslims. As you know, we gave a donation, a small token donation of $1,000 to the Afghanistan freedom fighters, and we also gave to Christians, charitable organizations. We give almost regularly to charitable organizations. We reserve a certain small percentage of our funds for non-Muslims that we know are honorable and have the same essential principles and goals, the moral goals and the strong belief in G-d that we have. Thought they're not Muslims, we have to support them. We don't have much, but we share, we have to share with them. We do that.
Here in Chicago area, we have helped the schools, about a third of the money to operate our schools has come from charity until very recently, it ran out. Now that savings only has $7,000 there, but up until it ran out, we were regularly giving like $5,000, $10,000 to the schools to meet payroll and pay our taxes, payroll taxes.
Interviewer: Very few people know that, even Muslim, people--
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, they don't know but I say what I do is open, anybody have some concern, they can come, look at the--I tell the bank give them a copy of the whole record, the whole statement.
Interviewer: You've been saying that for 10 years.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, we don't blow a horn, we don't toot a horn because we feel that this is our obligation, no more than our obligation. I invite any believers who'd like to know and I hope that maybe the accounting department, or the accountant among us, we have an accountant here. [unintelligible 00:43:40] Ali, he's on the board, [unintelligible 00:43:42] board here, which is very much appreciated by all of us. He's a highly qualified accountant. I would invite him or anybody that the community would want to, to get the records of what has been done with the contribution and make it available to the whole community.
Interviewer: It is so rare that organizations do this. That is rare. That is admirable.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I think we should publish what we do in a publication, but we have a newsletter I think it would be perhaps too much for our small newsletter, but we should publish it periodically, maybe quarterly, there should be a quarterly report on what's being done with the charities. We're so busy trying to just keep up with things that's going on. I don't have the time myself to do that, but someone in the community, they would do that, we'd appreciate it.
Interviewer: Are people paid to be in the office?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes.
Interviewer: Are people paying the tuition now like they should? [crosstalk]
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, we can never expect hardly more than a third of the tuition to be paid by the parents, or by the community. [crosstalk]
Interviewer: You mean a third or the people, of a third of the cost?
END OF AUDIO
Interviewer: Yes, sir.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: For the year. We expect it will be paid by those faithful believers and who have their tuition and they faithfully come in and they pay their tuition but two-thirds of it will have to be paid from some other source because, - not all the time because they're unconcerned or delinquent.
Interviewer: You have to wonder about that.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, many times they just don't have it. Many of our members they're poor and they just can't afford-- What we think our tuitions are, we think our tuitions are very modest, but we have some people who can barely just managed to eat and sleep, many of them don't have gas on in their homes. 
When you got about maybe a third of your membership in a situation like that, then, you can't tell them well you can't have your child here. They come we have to give them a chance, here's the tuition, we expect you to pay it so they tell us, "Yes, we'll pay it." I believe when they register their children they intend. But they run into difficulty and they realized that they were just excited and they wanted the child in a Muslim school and it was too much for them.
Who pays? The administration pays. We have to get it through fund raising, but we have some very good people here that fund raising programs interrupted for a while last year and it hurt us, it hurt us considerably. I don't want to put the finger on nobody here, but there was someone in the staff responsible for that and it was a newcomer in our our staff, that was put in a key position and they interfered with that.
They thought that we didn't need that and we gave extra headache to keep up with it and the people who were doing it was not all they were not under his administration. They were discouraged and we didn't get that money for them, but now it's been worked out. The board has come in and they formed a new board. The board is working now with the staff and they all working together now very well and we have monies that are coming in by the fund raising efforts again which pays maybe about a fourth-- One-fifth of the cost sometimes a fourth of the cost.
The rest of it has to come from other sources like it was coming from the account downtown but now with that's gone, they have had to meet with the staff and get the staff people to volunteer cuts in their salaries. You perhaps have heard about that. They have had to come up with an altogether new program for the staff for payments and they looking for now people who will volunteer their service and we have just a small pace there and we're hoping that we'll get a larger staff that will volunteer and give their services free.
Interviewer: Especially if you have someone where the husband working making good money.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: And they retired because some excellent teachers are retired have recently retired, but they're still good to teach. We're hoping that eventually we'll get that and the board, they have done a good job. They have put advertisement in the paper and--
Interviewer: [crosstalk].
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I expect we're going to have some people have called. In fact, I expect some people already have called and eventually our needs should be answered I hope.
Interviewer: Since you made the statement, the last statement about Muslim like the role of the male in Al Islam. Have you noted any improvement in the family condition or is it easy to assess that?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No. I have gotten even before that time, I have had believers come up to me and tell me or send me a note and tell me that the-- brother Imam we wish you would teach on family again. I wish you would say more on family again, because it sure certainly helped us. It helped me and my husband.
Interviewer: Sisters come tell you?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, and I have had brothers too. Brothers told me and said, "Brother Imam, you've certainly helped our family."
Interviewer: There's a lot of people that just don't know.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's right. We just take our religious life sometimes for granted because we've been Muslims, we've been practicing so we know what is expected of a Muslim family, but we forget that these converts, new converts to the religion, they have to be told what's expected of a Muslim family in terms of Muslim family life.
Interviewer: The event that's coming up in the Cobo Arena on July 20th, is this part of the propagation that you announcement last year?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: This is the tour. That would be a tour plan for the purpose of reaching not say, so much propagation for the purpose of reaching many Muslim and believers. Whether they are avowed or confessed Muslims or not. Believers in G-d that have been influenced by the Nation of Islam and by my leadership and who still looking this way for religious direction. They're not in the mosques, they are in the streets and they are in the home of these neighborhoods. We have to find a way to reach the greater number of our supporters that are not inside the walls of the mosque.
Interviewer: Would you say that you've had a major influence on of the Nation of Islam Mr. Farrakhan? There's a lot of - [inaudible 00:06:54].
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I would have to say yes to that simply because what I represented was something very, very I would say different in some very, very meaningful way from what we had received in the temple of Islam or Nation of Islam under the Honorable Elijah Muhammad teachings. So because I myself was the voice for those universal Islamic concerns, I would say that Farrakhan would have to have been influenced by us and I'm sure that the recent changes that he has announced--
Interviewer: Do you think they're genuine?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Well, I hope they're genuine and I fear suspecting that they are not genuine. See a lot can happen. Farrakhan--
Interviewer: Is this for publication or is this off the record?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It's for publication if you'd like to publish it. Farrakhan is a man who says he's religious and he draws from religious strength, you see and I believe he protects himself in the god of religious interest. With the god of religious interests. Now, I wouldn't want to-- I have my own thoughts, but I wouldn't want to ever say to my family-- Not even to my family, I tell my family, I say, "No, we have to accept what we see until we see something different that the religious claim of Farrakhan is faith.
I wouldn't want to say that. In fact, I know that most African-Americans, no matter how far they vary from purely religious principles to money, to finances, to politics, and to that direction, they are people who fear G-d and many times they're not consciously aware of that but our past experience has been one of existing and bad times to sometimes horrible times and violent times and we have existed I would say by feeling that the arms of G-d was around us.
I think Farrakhan is not an exception when it comes to that. I think that the religious fire burns in him. I don't know how deep it is. I don't know if it's close to the surface or not. [unintelligible 00:10:25] buried on the surface of all of that. I can't--
Interviewer: You should know that a lot of his people used to go to the people who follow you to learn how to pray as a whole?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, I'm not aware of that.
Interviewer: They started that shortly after you-- When you spoke in Los Angeles last December, they started doing that then.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's wonderful.
Interviewer: All over the country. You told them to.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's wonderful.
Interviewer: That's when I asked the question about the influence.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No, the influence has to be there because Farrakhan himself was with us for a good while before he left under my leadership and--
Interviewer: Why did he decide to leave?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: He decided to leave because there was not an opportunity here for his aspirations, for his aspirations as a minister or as Imam or leader. I think I would say more accurately, for his aspiration as an inspired African-American leader.
Interviewer: [inaudible 00:11:29]?
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Yes, that's right. Exactly. He had to go and find an opportunity for that.
Interviewer: They also got $25 Million from United Arab Emirates and they're getting ready to build a masjid from the ground up.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I didn't know that.
Interviewer: They're saying that it will-- if Jabber doesn't hurry up it will be up before his is completed.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Is that so? Congratulations. We have to congratulate them. We have to congratulate the United Arab Emirates for looking at our needs in this part of the country and helping organization or association of Muslims under Farrakhan with those needs.
Interviewer: And I also understand that they are having the Islamic Studies class intensely, [unintelligible 00:12:25] and all of those types of things.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's wonderful.
Interviewer: All of a sudden yesterday, I think one day recently Kahlid the national spokesman for Farrakhan, he was set down because he didn't want to change from the old ways. Something is happening. I'm not [crosstalk] or what. I don't know.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: It's started. We expect that Allah will bless them for all the good steps they take to comply with the teachings of the Quran and the son of our prophet.
Interviewer: But it would just seem to me like they were [unintelligible 00:13:05].
Imam W.D. Mohammed: Well, I know it would help the image of the final call, the Nation of Islam under Farrakhan in America. If those things are made known and especially I'm sure many Americans and I would think, I don't know what the concerns of the Intelligence Department is but I would think that the Unites States Intelligence Department too would be very happy to know that Farrakhan has received a substantial gift from a moderate Muslim nation.
Interviewer: They probably knew it two minutes after it was signed.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I'm sure. [laughs]
Interviewer: Also, they've been trying to reach out but we see them out when we go cover events and so forth and they give greetings. They say, "Why don't we get together sometime and eat dinner or something. They be trying to reach across." But we keep our freedom and just keep our distance and so forth but they're trying. It feels like a yearning almost like because the other thing they fear is-- Well, not they fear, they know they're going to lose a lot. They've stated that that they're going to lose something because of the transition that's being made.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: You mean lose how?
Interviewer: The people.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: I see.
Interviewer: They shouldn't be afraid of that.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: No.
Interviewer: Take the message and go head on.
Imam W.D. Mohammed: That's right. Never fear losing people, you fear losing favor with G-d if you're Muslim.
Interviewer: Brother Imam, I'm not going to take any more of your time--
[00:15:00] [END OF AUDIO]

