11/10/1992
IWDM Study Library
The Nation of Islam

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
Moderator: This is W. Deen Mohammed speaking at Duke University Raleigh-Durham North, Carolina. The date is November 10th, 1992. The title is The Nation of Islam.
[applause]
W. Deen Mohammed: Praise be to Allah. As-salaam-alaikum, that is peace be on you. We witness that there's but one Lord, Creator, and we witness that Muhammad, to whom the Quran was revealed, is the last prophet. We salute him with the well-known, most excellent salutation. 
I would like to first express our appreciation for having this opportunity to address you tonight on this campus, at this great institution and to acknowledge those who have made this possible for us. Dr. C. Eric Lincoln and also the Black Student Association, friends, (unclear), and the local masjid, Imam Waheed. We appreciate your making it possible for us to address you here tonight.
I will be talking on something that may come as a surprise to some of you and that's democracy, Islamic democracy. When I first began to have some idea about Islamic democracy, I was a minister in the ministry of the late leader of the Nation of Islam, who passed in 1975, February, Elijah Muhammad. My father, that I love dearly and love even more since I have gone to understand him better in these years after his passing away. I was sensing that Islam was a democracy from reading certain passages of the Quran. The Koran, as it is called in English by most of the people over here. I was sensing that Muhammad, our prophet, the prayers and peace beyond him was the answer to the promise in scripture.
That promise in scripture that promises us, that is, oppressed society, oppressed souls and oppressed societies a liberator. Now, we know all of these religions have a figure in them that answer that promise, the promise of a liberator. I guess I felt that the idea of the Nation of Islam was not quite in the form that I could be pleased with, even back then, but I wasn't the only one. Back then, there were several students on my level of the University of Islam. Actually, it was elementary and high school, we were in high school at the time but it was called University of Islam. You have some knowledge of the history of these Black institutions of learning, African-American or negro colleges.
You will recall in the history of the establishment of these institutions, fine institutions, that some of them were started. In fact, in the early days of their history, I believe most of them were started and headed by persons who were not college graduates. They were called colleges because, I guess, the aspiration, the goal was to have a college. They hadn't got there yet but they put the name college on those institutions. Fard must have thought that if they could get by with it, he could too. He called our school University of Islam and it was only an elementary and secondary school. In fact, elementary for a long time. Also, among the adults, the older people, there was also a desire for a brotherhood and a community that would be more democratic.
We didn't use the term democracy back then but when we talk of the brotherhood and when we talk of the things we liked about it and the things that we didn't like about it. When you digest that language, you come up with this, that we were hoping for a better concept of how we should be governed, how we should run the organization or the Nation of Islam. We were actually hoping for perfect order, and that, to me, is a true democracy. I'm taking the position that Islam leads us to the ideal democracy, that's my position. Not to say that no other religion does that, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that I'm convinced that Islam leads us to the ideal democracy.
There will not be any confusion in me or in you regarding the form of government rule or the government rule or form of government that we approve. I believe that we can approve a government that's headed by a king. Right now, they're changing inside Saudi Arabia. The king is beginning to not want to be called king. We do have and we have, and we have had, in the past, societies ruled over by a king. The king has been democratic and he forms a group under him that preserves the kingdom. He's more a king in a sense of a figurehead king and somebody to refer than the one that gets the buck last last, as one president says, "The buck stop here."
What I am saying is not that Islam doesn't allow a single ruler to head a nation or like a king, no, I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that the order of that society should be democratic. Every person in that society should have the right to address the leader and get a response from the leader. That's exactly the kind of government order that Prophet Muhammad established. When anyone in the society of the Muslims had the right, male and female, to address the ruler and to question the ruler, and to do it publicly and get results. There is much more I intend to say. I don't intend to be here addressing you very long because we do want to give a chance for questions.
I feel it wouldn't be serving you well, I wouldn't be doing you a good service if I didn't do that, open for questions. In my understanding, the way self, the human self, the nafs or the human self, or the soul, the individual person is treated in our religion is done in a way to get us to understand that, though we are singular and as persons, I'm a single person, I'm not to think to myself as a single person. I am to think of myself as a social person. I am to think of myself as an extended self. Really, when you just think about it, just think about it, it's very hard to think of yourself without thinking of somebody else. It's very difficult to think of yourself without thinking of anybody else.
Most of our thoughts on ourselves, we're thinking of ourselves because somebody has either done good by us and done wrong by us. There's always somebody else involved. We are never totally alone by ourselves, even when we are in our most selfish moments. We are to think of ourselves as a plural self. Now, when we greet the single person in Islam, we don't say "As-salamu alayka." Ka is singular in number, grammatically speaking. We don't say it to the brother As-salamu alayka, that would be peace be on you, one person. We speak to him as though he's many, we say, "As-salamu alaykum," kum is the plural
The same for the sister, we don't say to the sister As-salamu alayki. We say to the sister, the same thing, As-salam alaykum, though she's plural, many. I know there's more than just the reason that I'm giving for that, but I'm saying that I believe that that is to say, also, that we don't recognize any person isolated from the rest of society. We only see people and identify people as social people. They are social people, social persons. Plural in their concern, they are plural not singular. I believe that that idea is the basis for the growth of what I see as the true democracy. If man is the social creature and a plural entity by nature, then that would support the idea of him choosing a democracy, a true democracy rather than any other form of government.
I believe if all of us had the condition, the good conditions for human life, I believe all of us would prefer a true democracy over any other form of government or society. Now, I'm going to address something else. It's going to get a little more ticklish as I go, especially for Muslims. Now, we have the sunnah of the prophet and we have what we call his uswah. The Quran says, his uswah is the best model for us. He is the best model for any who believes in G-d and the last day. That would be belief in G-d and belief in being accountable. His uswah is the model for us. Uswah is model or example, his well-balanced complete self. Uswah means well-balanced, complete man.
His Sunnah, Sunnah means just the way things are done, the traditional way a thing happens. What has been established as the way of that particular thing or that person.
We have the sunnah of G-d, sunnatullah, the Sunnah of G-d. G-d has established a way, we witness that G-d's way is established. We witnessed that the prophet’s way is established, so this is the Sunnah, the Sunnah of the prophet. Now, when we make our prayers, the Muslim, when we make our prayers, we make the obligatory prayers, the group prayers all together and we also make the sunnah prayers. These prayers are the most important prayers for a Muslim, the group prayer and the Sunnah prayer.
The sunnah prayer is the prophet's Sunnah. We're doing what he did. He prayed in group and then he would pray alone. This tells me that this is a religion that insists that every individual be responsible, even for leadership. He must be responsible even for leadership, for leading because when he is able to lead himself in prayer, he's also qualified to lead us in prayer. Those who can lead themselves in prayer are qualified to lead the group prayer. If he can do his sunnah prayers by himself, he should also be able to lead us in the prayer, and he can. The obligation is not on the community, this is the message that I'm given. The obligation does not fall just on the government or the government heads, or on the community as a group, but falls on the individual.
The individual must be able to accept responsibility for himself and also for the community. He must be able to lead just as a leader leads. Now, we know everybody is not going to be qualified equally, some are much qualified than others, but that's a sign. That's a sign to us that demonstrate that G-d wants all of us to qualify for leadership. Everybody in Islam is qualified to ascend to the highest position in leadership. While I'm saying this, it is important that we also acknowledge that, really, in Islam, there's no such thing as a clergy class, there’s no clergy. No such thing as a clergy, no clergy. There is no particular Institution that we have to go to, to qualify for Imam or to qualify to lead the Muslims in the Friday prayers. We don’t have to go through any institution.
The best leaders were those that didn't go to any institution. I can learn from Quran, I can learn from any Imam, from a friend. I learn from a neighbor, I can learn from a woman.
I can learn the religion from a woman, learn how to lead the prayers from a woman. I can become an Imam and lead the community and no decent Muslim will question me. All he wants to know, "Do you know Quran? Do you know how to lead the prayers? Can you give the kutbah? Do you know the Sunnah of the Prophet? Then that's enough." Now, we know that when we come up naturally in a good home environment, we come up in a democratic order. It's really an ideal democracy.
The home that has mama and daddy, and the love is right, the mind is healthy, the heart is healthy, that's a true democracy. No father will cut some child out of opportunity, he treats them all equally. No child will say, "This one has to succeed me," no, he will let them compete with each other and the best one succeeds him. The one that shows the most promise, the one that shows the most ability that will qualify for that, that's the one he wants to succeed him. No mother will favor one child over the other. Really, the true democracy is with us when G-d creates our soul and with us when G-d has established us upon the excellence of nature in our home life. It's The sign of the true democracy.
Some Muslims think I've gone crazy over western ideas and I'm just a person who's in love with the western democracy so much and the idea freedom over here so much because they hear some of the things I'm saying. You're far from being on track, buddy. What has turned me on is not the western society, it has been the Quran and the Sunnah of our prophet, the peace be on him. That's what has turned me on to this, I would have been a communist or something way, way far out if Islam hadn't saved me. Important to democracy is also a motivation in our beginning, in the beginning of our creation. We are given an excellence in our creation, an excellence.
The prophet Muhammad, the prayers and peace be on him. He said that G-d has prescribed, in everything, excellence. He has prescribed excellence for everything. This is his saying in connection with the slaughtering of animals, but it goes for everything. He said [Arabic word] everything, everything, that he has prescribed excellence for it. I believe that excellence is the motivation, excellence should be our motivation, excellence. I believe that excellence is the natural motivation in human beings. Excellence is that natural motivation that accounts for most of our gains and successes. Most of our great accomplishment is the motivation for excellence, excellence.
The prophet has said that the Muslims follow him, yes his excellence, but he also says that we are to follow his first disciples, his companions. His companions who were established for their excellence, they were established for their excellence. How does the prophecy say we should follow them? [Arabic language]. This is Quran and this is the prophet. You are familiar with it, I'm sure you're familiar with it. That we have to follow them by their excellence. Now, I didn't come here just to address democracy and just to address the concept that I see in it for Muslims, for Islam, I came also to speak to the African-American brothers and sisters. What started us off was the motivation to excellence. We were put in slavery and we wanted to get out of that slave state or the slave condition. We were made a class of slaves in this society and we wanted a class of excellence. A class equal to the best class in America, that was the motivation. Some of us had the church, the church served us to help lead us to that excellence, to help lead us out of that inferior class into more excellent class. Other of us, we had nationalism, black nationalism, and Islam. Others, persuasions working in us, to motivate us to more excellence. If we are really depressed as a group, as African American people, if we are really feeling downhearted and feeling like we can't make any more progress.
If we have become a people without hope and feeling sad and sorry or miserable, it's because the motivation has changed. If the motivation is for excellence, you never will become a downhearted person or a pessimistic person. The motivation of excellence will keep you alive, will keep you hopeful, will keep you always feeling that you have the muscle to deal with the problem at hand. The motivation of excellence. This is the great revelation that I see for the great religions, is that G-d wants us to be motivated by excellence. Excellence is not necessarily moral. Excellence is not necessarily academic. Excellence is all-encompassing, it's comprehensive.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we would look back and ask ourselves, "Why did we follow Dr. King? Why did we follow Elijah Muhammad? Why did we follow Malcolm Shabazz or Malcolm X?" Ask the question and come up with the answer, "We followed them because they were serving our need to make more progress toward our potential for excellence." Wouldn't that be wonderful? Then, we can get rid of a lot of this downheartedness in us and a lot of this pessimism that's in us. A lot of this bitterness in us, a lot of the hatred that's in us. A lot of this self-destruction that's in us. It will clear up, buddy if we would just go back and get that first motivation.
The slaves weren't motivated to rob each other, and to beat up each other, and to kill each other and take pleasure in just mistreating each other and abuse themselves with drugs and alcohol, et cetera, that wasn't their pleasure. They didn't have big problems like that, why? Because those slaves had the motivation of excellence. Their spirit was filled up, was fired by the motivation to rise from inferiority into more excellence. Excellence was their motivation. Not even Jesus Christ, peace be on Christ Jesus. Not even the church, peace be on the Church, no. Not even the Mosque, brother Muslim, no. It was the motivation for excellence.
We didn't know anything about a mosque, we joined the mosque because we thought it would serve that need in us to reach more excellence. We didn't know anything about a mosque, we didn't know anything about the Quran, we knew nothing about Allah. We were English-speaking people and speaking only black English. We didn't have any knowledge that would make us come to that, no. It was the motivation for excellence. Human nature with the natural motivation to rise from inferiority into excellence, that is the motivation. We share that common grounds right now. We share that with Farrakhan.
We share that with all black leaders. As long as they are motivated by excellence, and we see that they're going to offer something to our need to come into more excellence, we won't fight them publicly. If we fight them, it will be behind closed doors because that is the hope of the people, excellence. The Prophet, he's the sign of that for us. It didn't only say you'll find an example, it says that you will find the most excellent example. [Arabic language], the most excellent example, that's Muhammad, the last prophet. Another point I want to bring out is this, that as we rise up or evolve into more and more awareness of the true order that G-d wants for us as a government, that true democracy, it requires more moral muscle.
We get to a point where our thinking has to be governed by moral concern. Our professions have to be governed by moral concerns. We grow into the realization of what we call an ethical society, an ethical society. No true democracy can leave morals behind it. No true democracy can step into that ideal democracy without walking up the steps of ethical life, no. President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, as President facing all kind of problems, social upheaval, white and black clashing, how did he describe that society, our American society? He described it as a society facing a moral crisis.
Now, dear people, especially my African American brothers and sisters, when we were led to fight for freedom, to begin the freedom movement by great leaders like Frederick Douglass and others who came after him, and some before him, we must have resolved to identify slavery as a moral issue. Now, we know later, the great lawyer who became the supreme court justice, Thurgood Marshall and his colleagues, we know how they fought in the courts for us. We know how legislation had to be written and passed. We know all that. We know the process of law, but in order to get support to our side against racist America, we had to address slavery as a moral issue.
Now, when we look at our turn that we made during the early 70s, perhaps it even started during 60s, when we see that the movement, the African American movement for freedom, for equality in this society, it changed from one of moral address to one of angry confrontation. Today, long after we have had everything unlocked on us that we could find that it was locking us up, "Take off the shackles," he took them off. "Okay take off the yoke," he took the yoke off. "Okay open the door," he took it open. "These shoes are too tight, Okay, here's a more comfortable pair." Everything and then we're still looking for a battle. We still want to confront somebody. We're still angry.
We are not satisfied unless we have African American leaders who love confrontation, angry confrontation. Got to be angry with somebody. This, to me, is happening to us, I explained it, because we have left the original motivation. The original motivation is not there anymore. We can continue equal opportunity, the passing of all those bills on America that's not a Jim Crow anymore, that's not the end of our struggle. We don't need white people to do as much as they have done for us in the past. We don't need them now to do as much as they were doing for us. We need ourselves to do more for ourselves. I'm not the only one who is saying this. You hear this, we need ourselves to do more for ourselves.
The big job is not on white America, the big job now is on black America. The big job is on us now. There's a small job on white America, the big job is on us. In fact, there is such a small job on them until we shouldn't even have them in our plans or on our agenda. They shouldn't even be mentioned. Mention for what? We need to talk about ourselves. Where we want to go and how we should get there with our own energies, with our own determination, with our own good life, with our own resources. We are rich, we're not poor. This is an affluent society. America is a very affluent society and believe me, America's poor are an affluent poor. We are an affluent poor.
If you don't believe it, just go to some of the places I've been in the third world, - in the world, period. You will see that we are an affluent poor. All we need to do is manage our wealth. [applause]
I'm winding down. When you hear me talking loud, I'm getting ready to shut up.
[laughter]
Now, I hear some of our leaders, they criticize the condition of blacks all over the world. We should criticize it. People should criticize themselves. When you stop criticizing yourself, you're finished. We should criticize but try to see things with clear eyes, with a straight mind, and with a clear heart. Try to see things out of a clean vessel, not through the dirty vessel. It's not all the problem of the white world that Africa is having problems, no. It's not all the problem of the white world that the Haitians have problems. We have a little town, south of us, south of Chicago and that little town has had black rule ever since I was a boy. That's one of the worst towns you want to go to.
Now, I can understand it back then when we didn't have no opportunities, but what's wrong now? How come that town is still one of the worst towns to go to? I'm not going to even name the town. It's because we are looking too much to others to do for us what the Hon. Elijah Muhammad said. He said, "What you should be doing for yourself." I like what Jesse says too. Jesse says, "I might have been born in the slums but the slums ain't in me." I might have been born dependent but I'm not in love with dependency. That's my saying. Take that to Jesse. Now, I'm going to come back to ideal democracy because I believe that's where they're going eventually. If we don't go there, we're going to be eliminated.
The world has become one place to live now. We can't live apart from each other on this earth anymore. The conditions of the world, the progress of technology, the problems for man, the great numbers of people living on earth. The coming together of nations to solve their problems, the economy becoming a global economy now, where no nation can hedge or monopolize. The world is too open. You can't beat somebody in the dark alley anymore and get away with it. The dark alley is lit. The whole world sees what you are doing no matter what part of the globe that you're on. We are living in a world that has become one room for us or well, better put, one house for us.
Nations are nothing but rooms in that house. They have to decide, together, on how that house is being managed. I know what we are hearing about America. Maybe it's thinking of itself as the global police, global cop and all that stuff. I don't buy it. There`s no possibility for any global cop today. I agree with those analyst who was saying that America has a superiority and that superiority is military. It is the only superpower in terms of its military strength. But as for other powers, such as economics and other things, America has to share and America is at the mercy of others too. I'm not fearing any one real order to be headed by any supercop. I don't believe that's something we should worry about.
I do believe that we need to become more informed. The masses, we need representatives who speak to the masses. Representatives from the masses who speak to the masses from their own independent thinking. Not something passed down to them from somebody else's thinking, no. We need to come into our own independent mind and into our own independent thinking and study the global conditions and then, come back and address our people and share this global reality with more of us poor, affluent poor. So that we can prepare for the great changes that's coming in the future. We are already feeling these great changes. Great changes are coming in the future.
Those changes are going to require more government in everybody's life. That's what G-d is telling us when he is talking about a government. He is not talking about the United States concept of government. He is not talking about this kind of government. He is talking about government in the individual. Our wise men, our philosophers, our political theorist, I believe that they deciphered that from scripture, from Quran, from Old Testament, from New Testament. They deciphered these things and then, they put it in their language, and then they work for our democracy. They work for our society where the individual is the monitor. You monitor what's good in the society by what G-d intended for the individual, and it works.
Believe me, and my people know this, when I first became a leader, didn’t I tell you all that Islam has a democracy and our concept or rule was wrong, and we had to bring in Islamic democracy? And I did it and I kept the following there with me. They haven’t gone. We are not making any big to do about how many numbers we have, but every year, I see the numbers growing. The numbers are growing, the people are growing in wealth. They are growing in education, they are growing in political skills. They are rising in politics, they are rising in business. They are rising in recognition, here in America and all over this planet. Who is their leader? Wallace D. Mohammed, whose education is no more than 12 years.
[applause]
It's not me, it's the Quran. It's the life of the prophet that's doing this for us. We've given too much credit to the white men. If he would tell the truth, maybe he'd forgotten, but if he would go back and track himself back to Europe and keep going back, especially Germans, they keep tracking back, they'll find something that frightens the hell out of them. If they'll admit it too, they’ll say, "Yes we got scripture first and that turned us onto something." If they will admit it, they will admit that scripture turned them on to something. When the great religious revolutionary, what's his name? Martin Luther.
He was inspired. What came behind his enlightenment, behind his revolution, behind his change of mind? What came from it? The overthrow of dictatorships, Christian church dictatorships and the ushering in of democracy. When we read about Muhammad, our prophet in the Quran, the prayers and the peace be on him. When we read about him, we read about him in connection with the promise of a liberator. Allah says in the Quran most high, He says to us in a Quran, of Muhammad that he is the one promised in the old testament, in the Torah, and in the Injil the gospel. He is the one promised.
He is the liberator that will take the yolks out off of us, that will break the bondage, lead us into freedom. Muslims, we are losing something if we don't see that Islam intends for us, a perfect democracy. It motivates excellence in us. Let us get out of this stuff of arguing with each other over who is Shiites and who is Sunnah, and who is this and who is that. We'll take up that argument later, let's get on the big job. Human excellence, motivate the people toward excellence.
[applause]
Motivate the people toward excellence and show them Muhammad he is the example for anybody, Christian, Jews, atheist, everybody. If they want to be motivated toward excellence, they only have to look at his sunnah, look at his Uswah. [Arabic language]. Thank you very much. As-sal?mu alaykum.
[applause]
Moderator: Well, on behalf of everyone, well, I want to thank Imam Warith Deen Muhammad for an inspiring example of excellence. I would like to, now, be the moderator for any questions that from- from the floor and I think what I'd probably like to do since it is a bit difficult for people to hear is if you have a question to come forward and just-- microphone work? Or down there? There's a microphone right there- two microphones there. If you have a question, please come forward and I will recognize you and ask you to address the question to the Hon. Elijah Muham – I didn't say that, (I meant to say) the Hon. Warith Deen Muhammad.
Imam Mohammed: [laughs] Look here, I got something to share with you. I started to change my name to Wallace Bin Elijah Mohammed. I did, I swear I did. I thought it would work. I thought it would get me more support from my father's followers.
[laughter]
I still like to think of that Wallace Bin Elijah Muhammad because that's who I am. Wallace, son of Elijah Muhammad.
Audience 1: [inaudible 00:40:53] You mentioned about the soul, the human soul. Would you just expound a little, some little bit about the soul of the human being?
Imam Mohammed: Yes. Both in the Quran and in the Bible, the soul is treated singly and plural. G-d says that in the Quran, that he made us from one single nafs. nafsin wahidah, and he says that he made from it male and female from it. From that one single soul. Now we can think of that single soul as one individual, which is true, that's true, too. But we have to also think of that single soul, as male and female, that single soul itself is male, both male and female. That's the beginning of the idea that man is a social creature.
The Bible mentioned also Adam, and it mentions Adam as a single person. The Bible, Genesis also mentions Adam, as a plural person. He said that He called them Adam, in the day that He made them. I don't think that's just there to say that they were the children of Adam, or they had become many, I think is there to tell us that the individual is to be seen as a plural entity. No human being can live by himself alone. Is that sufficient? I hope it is. These things are philosophical, but I think it makes good sense. Good common sense too.
Audience 2: [inaudible 00:42:42]
Imam Mohammed: Yes. We have many women preachers. But if you mean do they lead the Friday prayers as Imam, no.
(audience members says something inaudible)
Yes, I believe so. I have some learned Muslims here in this audience, but I'm going to tell you what I believe. I believe that Islam wants to preserve the original excellence that G-d created us with. In that original excellence is also the excellence of mother, the excellence of mother. Feminine excellence, female excellence, and also the excellence of Daddy, Father, and male excellence, a masculine excellence. I believe that Islam wants to preserve that, and to preserve that we have to have something that stays with us visible all the time.
The Imam, in my opinion, that role Imam, where he leads the prayer and the congregation- the congregational prayers, and gives the sermon or the lecture, the Khu?bah, the lecture on Fridays, I believe that that role does not say that that Imam is necessarily superior for that job, to a woman. I don't believe it says that. I believe it says that G-d want to preserve the man in the public life, preserve his role in the public life, as the one who address the problems of the public, and lead the men to fight evils, to fight the wars, to do the hard work, to do the jihad. That's how I see it. But it doesn't mean that he is more qualified than them to do the small job of giving a Khu?bah.
Women can give Khu?bah, but not in his role. Women give Khu?bah. Some of the most excellent Khu?bahs are given by women. Women make Imams. Women make Imams. Yes.
[applause]
Their insight, their intelligence, their insights, their knowledge, sometimes go so much above the Imams that a woman has to make Imams. The Imams- pardon me, the men in the times of our prophets, day of our prophets. They would go to the women who were nearest to him because they had the more knowledge. They would go to Lady Khadija, [Arabic language]. May G-d be pleased with her. They would ask her a question. They would go through lady Ayesha, [Arabic language] G-d be pleased with her. They would ask questions of her these questions of her.
She had her own-- What do we call the report? She has her own report. Just as the learning scholars of prophet Mohammed, they have their report. We refer to her report for understanding on Islam. So this doesn't mean that the Islam is saying that a man is above a woman in his intellect, or in his soul or in his spirit. We believe that G-d made us of equal essence, male and female. Made us an equal essence. The woman has the potential to do the same thing a man does. In fact, a woman has the potential to beat Muhammad Ali in the ring. I mean, back then, when he was really the champ. A woman has the potential to do it. You just have to put her in that kind of circumstance. Pop, pop.
[laughter]
Given the same circumstances, the woman can do the same thing the man does.
Audience 3: [inaudible 00:46:55]
[laughter]
Audience 4: I need to ask the question on the soul. You mentioned that the soul, when G-d gave us the soul, that it was both male and female.
Imam Mohammed: Yes. That's what I believe, Yes.
Audience 4: How does that bear on the physiological nature of a man and a woman as two separate entities as we are today?
Imam Mohammed: How that bear on the physiological?
Audience 4: Physiologically.
Imam Mohammed: Physiologically? It presents, in my opinion, based upon my understanding, it presents no problem at all, for the physiology of the two. Presents no problem at all for the physiology of the two. It's not talking about the physiology or the physical. It is talking about the soul, and the nature of the soul. That we in our souls, the man, can be motherly to his children, just like the woman, and the woman if she has to, she can be fatherly too to her children. This is known. This is life.
We find some men, they can take the job over from the woman and serve the needs of the children with the feminine tendency, a tenderness that we see in the woman. We see that. We know that happens.
Now, to me, that's no threat to the physiology of the male. I never was interested in becoming homosexual and as long as I see these pretty women around me, I don't think I ever will become- be interested in that. I've never been interested in being a monk or anything like that either. For me, it presents no problem at all for the physiology and I think that the distortions in our physiology are just accidents. We don't go by the accidents, we go by the rule. Man should live by rules not by accidents. I know you didn't ask for all that. I just took the advantage and the opportunity.
[laughter]
Audience 4: One more question. The reason for this question is that in the [unintelligible 00:49:44] the system just came up just a while ago. We find the intonation and the desire of the woman is to excell above men and in Quran [unintelligible 00:50:00] Allah say that the man is a degree above the woman. I want to know if we are saying at this time that male as well as female is a single soul and Allah is saying that man is a degree above the woman, why are we having the problem now in society, with the woman not being satisfied in her role?
Imam Mohammed: You should see how many tears I've shed in my life. Now, let me say something about that degree above the woman. The Quran doesn't leave us just hanging there. We know how to explain that degree above the woman. In the amassing of wealth and in our physique. You let them women keep pumping iron buddy, we might lose that degree. We already giving them the money, right? When they got the money and they keep pumping iron, we can lose that degree.
Allah didn't say you got it for eternity. [chuckles] You don't have it for eternity, pardon me. It's not ours for eternity. We have a degree because of the amassing of wealth and our physical physique. The power of our bodies over theirs. I think one man is suffering in jail right now, for using the power of his body over a woman.
Audience member: [unintelligible 00:51:28] believe in the role of a woman in this society could change and could change to [unintelligible 00:51:35]?
Imam Mohammed: Yes, I share the same concern that you have. I believe-- You know what I tell the sisters, and most of the sisters, they like it. I tell the sisters that, "We have a superiority over them and they have a superiority over us." This is Islam. We are superior in certain respects and they are superior in other respects. I tell them, "Please, sister, we recognize your superiority. Please help us keep ours."
[applause]
Audience 5: In your early form of research [unintelligible 00:52:15] when our Earth does our teaching, such as divine creations and destined designs from all early teaching was basically that G-d will bless (unclear), at that particular time.
Imam Mohammed: I didn't get the last part.
Audience 5: Okay.
Speaker: That they were basically--
Audience 5: At that particular time you were expressing through your lectures across the country, often in Chicago, at that particular time, the African American community-- The African American people were G-d's chosen people, at that particular time. Based on two books ago, and you had one book before, not later, than one book before you were stating at that particular time that you think G-d would-- Allah, had taken, the people chosen, away from the African American community. Are you basing this on just a plight in which you are going through constantly consistent or [unintelligible 00:53:07]?
Imam Mohammed: No. I was really basing it on my study of our plight as a people. When I study our plight as a people, I see G-d with us. The leaders of our people from the Christian church, they thought the same and I believe they still do. That's what I believe. I believe that G-d is with us to help us get on our feet again and get respect among nations of the world. I believe G-d is with us.
When I say that we are G-d's chosen people, that's what I mean. He chooses those who have been mistreated, who have been overpowered, who have been denied the use of their own good senses. Slavery denied us the use of our own good senses. G-d comes to the aid of such mistreated people and I still believe G-d is with us, but G-d is also whipping us a little bit now because we left the original motivation.
Audience 6: As Salaam alaikum [unintelligible 00:54:35]. 
Speaker: Walaikum salam [Arabic language].
Audience 6: I would like to send a shout-out to the brothers from Raleigh who were not able to be here.
Speaker: Thank you. Walaikum asalam.
Audience 6: You mentioned a consummation of law. The government of law through the Muslims and applying a democratic principle. To bring it home here to North Carolina, I would ask you to address the Muslim community of North Carolina to turn unification of the Muslim's and how we could better work towards being one community here. For pulling the objectives and the goals that you had just set forth.
I ask that on the behalf of all the Muslim's of North Carolina and of the United States that you address us in the means in terms of encouraging further that motivation for us to come together so that we can do the things independently, in order to be successful and bring about the government of Allah. Asalaam alaikum.
Imam Mohammed: Okay. Walaikum asalam. Yes, I would welcome the opportunity anytime to come back here and address the Muslim community here. I think that you are doing very well here. I'm hearing about what is happening. I see some changes have been made recently. New blood has come into the community here. I expect that you got to be doing very well and be doing better.
As for the government of Allah, that government is to be established in ourselves individually first. If we can accept the government in our own hearts, in our own minds, when we alone and nobody is looking at us, we can do something haram and nobody sees us but Allah. If we can keep the government right, in our individual selves, then that will make it possible for us to have a stronger government for the Islamic community.
The Islamic community should have government. We should have a sense of government, the ummah in America should have a sense of government. Every mosque should have a sense of government. We should have a sense of government. It doesn't mean that we are in competition with the American government, no. The American people are no stronger than these separate governments. If we come out of our separate, distinct worlds that support our life. The Christian world supports the Christian life. The Christian teachings-- Pardon me, supports the Christian life. The Jewish teaching supports the Jewish life. The Muslim teaching supports the Muslim life.
When we come out of that world of disciplines for us then America's weakened. America does not advocate an ideology for us, except the concept of democracy. America expects that we will have our own disciplines, our moral disciplines, our religious disciplines. We will be able to sustain ourselves on our own ships or in our own vessels. Muslims ought to get out of that habit, especially modern Muslims in America.
Black Muslims, the African American Muslims get out of the habit of thinking that we leave government all to the United States. No, we have laws in this religion. We have an order, definite order for our life and our families and our community. We must learn more about Islamic government, and seek to realize more and more degrees of Islamic government in our personal life, in our home life, in our schools, in our mosques, in all of our institutions, and in our neighborhoods, if we have a neighborhood.
Yes, this is allowed in this society. See how this society is so good for us.
Moderator: Yes, I'm going to say that we have three more questions. Because I'm aware of the fact, that Imam Mohammed has given us a lot of his time. There's still folks and I hear shuffling their feet behind me that want to give their words. These are the last three questions that we're going to have tomorrow here and then we're going to say that you have done us a job.
Imam Mohammed: I appreciate that because it's hard for me to cut off.
[laughter]
Moderator: I know. I know it is and I know it. I'm just trying to be your supporter here, for that. Your last three questions.
Imam Mohammed: An honorarium is still the same. It doesn't go up.
Moderator: Come up.
Audience 7: I was thinking about self-help in your speech. I was wondering how affirmative action fits into that frame of thinking? If it is completely foreign to it or can you incorporate it?
Imam Mohammed: Self-help?
Audience 7: And affirmative action.
Imam Mohammed: Yes and self-help. Yes, I don't think self-help means that we shouldn't support affirmative action. No, but we should seek to minimize dependency and maximize independence. Minimize dependency, maximize independence and that's what I believe that we should do. There is still a need for affirmative action. We support that too, but we don't want to support anything that make our muscles flimsy, like wet rags that take the masculinity out of us or give the role of material support to our wives. It's okay if she has it by herself. But the federal government, the white man is in the majority. We depend upon them mostly.
Most of us in this religion with me, we feel that we are really being insulted and treated very badly by a society that will give our wives more money than we can make to take care of our families. Yes, what is that?
Audience 7: [unintelligible 01:00:53]
Imam Mohammed: Welfare, yes. I'm talking about welfare. Yes. I'm against the extent to which welfare in this country has grown and to be taken off of the real idea of welfare. Welfare means to fare well and we are not certainly faring well with this welfare.
[applause]
Moderator: Your question please.
Audience 8: I have two questions for you [unintelligible 01:01:45]. The first question has to be with what you had mentioned earlier about [unintelligible 01:01:54]. Unfortunately, both conditions [unintelligible 01:02:01] For a very young African American community who's struggling to find [unintelligible 01:02:25] slavery, how would you address that in [unintelligible 01:02:35] conversations with young African Americans?
Imam Mohammed: You mean, the slavery from the Muslim position.
Audience 8: From the [unintelligible 01:02:48] .
Imam Mohammed: Yes. If we judge a society by its evils that we experience, we would have to condemn practically every society that exists. We don't judge them by what occurs, we judge them by what they claim to be committed to. Because Christianity and the American form of government or democracy was committed to excellence, we have had the patience to wait until the society conform to its commitment.
Similarly, when we look at how Islam or how the Quran and Muhammad the Prophet, our Prophet, peace be upon him, dealt with slavery, then we see there something that we appreciate, something that really addressed slavery in the most excellent way. First of all, our religion made it almost impossible for slavery to continue in the real sense of slavery by addressing all people, all men, all women, with the term slaves.
The term, for slave commonly used in that time, was 'Abd'. When the Quran came, it called everybody the Abd of G-d, you're the Abd of G-d. So how does a good Muslim feel now with his 'Abd' and he's claiming complete authority over that Abd knowing too that G-d has said that that's G-d's Abd? That's G-d's slave. Shouldn't he wonder what's going on into that slave man who's converted to that religion and G-d says to the slave, "You're my Abd."
Islam, brought in a language that reached the slave and reach the master that says to both, this is G-d's Abd. This is G-d's slave.
I think that was the most powerful thing that was done to liberate the slave and to condition the master to give freedom to the slave. I think that was the most powerful thing that was done. How do I want-- What made me believe that? Because that's what has had the greatest effect in my own personal life. Reading in the Quran where G-d is calling me His slave. I can never be the slave of anybody. No, I'm the slave of G-d.
[applause]
But more than that was done. The Islamic law under the Prophet, for example, we just finished the month of Ramadan fasting, fasting in the month of Ramadan. So if you violate a rule in Islam, the Quran and the Prophet made a compensation you could compensate by freeing a slave. More than that the Prophet said, the Masters must feed their slaves, the same food they eat, and clothe their slaves with the same clothing they wear. Give them chance for education as you give your own children chance for education. The Prophet went so far as to say don't call them your slave call them your walid. But later because of them getting off track now walid becomes a slave.
In time maybe they can claim to know we go over them and you see the way they treat the servant. He said, your [Arabic language], come here you [Arabic language], hit him with a stick. You [Arabic language], that's his servant. But he's treating him like a slave. So no matter how beautiful language is, just like G-d, G-d means nothing real special to Christian people. But you let them go to the movies and hear enough of this, 'Oh my G-d'. It's the treatment of a thing that preserves it or destroys it. The treatment of a thing. You can treat a word in a way that destroys meaning. You see.
The problem that we have in the Islamic world is very complex and yet it's very simple. All we have to do is just stick to the straight language of Islam. We won't have these problems. But it's also complex when we see what is happening to the psychology of Muslims to get them off track and to get them out of touch with that original meanings.
Getting back-- One more thing on slavery. One more thing. Now, Yes. Men and women in the time of the Prophet would take their personal wealth and go and buy slaves from their masters and free them.
Another thing, there's no such thing as slavery in Islam. If you're thinking about slavery, on the plantations in the south. If you're thinking about the treatment of blacks in America, there is no such thing as that kind of slavery in Islam. Never. [background noise]
Yes. Okay, I think yes, that's enough. Thank you very much. As salaam alaikum.
[01:08:47] [END OF AUDIO]

